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widget2k4
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Re: New website features

Post by widget2k4 »

I have to agree with treefrog, a one arm bandit category is a must I would say. Also can you just upload pictures to the museum? I wouldn't mind uploading pictures but not too good on giving descriptions etc. and what category would you put something like a Hidden Treasure or trade stimulator into?
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badpenny
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Re: New website features

Post by badpenny »

"........... the two running it are more interested in this type of machine I'm also interested in canals, but you miss the point.
Paul and I are trying to expand on the sensation of entering a UK seaside arcade.

We're not trying to create an essential database of machines by alphabetical order.
It was approached by looking for evidence of machines we and others might remember. Then naturally whilst doing that one stumbles across something interesting, so shove it in because others might also be fascinated by it too.
There is an excellent American site which is already streets ahead of anyone else when it comes to such details, mainly American but it does include some British.
The Germans also have similar.
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Re: New website features

Post by 13rebel »

A great start to the museum, clear images of machines, unfussy background, well written descriptions with good videos. Well done and thanks. :D
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Re: New website features

Post by pennymachines »

Cheers rebel!

Hi Tf and thanks for the feedback.

Perhaps the easiest thing is for me to describe my original motive for creating the site and how that informs the decisions I made. The intention was always to provide a niche website specifically about British pre-decimal slot machines, both because they're my passion and, to date, they've been largely unrepresented (apart from two small books with limited pictorial content). The pennymachines.co.uk domain name was chosen to reflect this.

As part of this project I created the Forum which inevitably has a much broader scope, namely the whole pre-decimal amusement machine scene, albeit from a largely British collector community perspective. The purpose of the Museum is to catalogue uniquely British products up to the demise of the decimal penny. This doesn't stem from patriotic or nationalist motives, but in order to showcase what was particular and characteristic of the UK industry (conditioned by our legal, cultural and economic climate). It's necessary therefore to exclude foreign and post decimal machines, which would dilute the focus.

The name 'Museum' fits the 'classical' theme which was part of the site from the start - Arena, Forum, Archive etc. It is a kind of virtual museum, so why not? 'Database', 'Register' etc. sounds a bit cold and clinical.

I did anticipate there might be some disquiet about the absence of a bandit category but, as we discussed recently, there really are very few British bandits, so the broader Gambler category covers all games in which there is no conceivable element of skill. This would include the few bandits (BMR, etc.) and games like Clocks, Stockbrokers (certainly the Hidden Treasure) and betting games (Bullion etc.). I think it's quite easy to distinguish these true gambling games - nobody was ever fooled by the so-called 'skill button'.
treefrog wrote: Tue May 23, 2017 8:20 pmThe ability to register and categorise your own machines is great, but I would be tempted to make some of these field indexed based on categories that can be searched and structured.
I didn't understand that bit. All the fields are searchable and you can drill down to a manufacturer and that company's product via 'Manufacturer' links or all the makers of a particular type of game in similar fashion.

I fully take your last point, again on the bandit issue. But as BP says, there's an extensive online database covering these, plus many excellent books.

To address your questions widge - yes, I designed the Museum so that the only things you have to fill in are the name of the machine and at least one picture - so don't be intimidated. ;-)
It will say, 'This machine deserves a description' which I will happily supply. :cool:

As to trade stims - they're uniquely American - unless you count, say, a Trickler (Skill Game).
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Re: New website features

Post by treefrog »

But Mr PM, 20% of the machines you have listed in the museum are foreign machines converted to British coinage, I suspect as you have led this is about the interest people have as you pointed out the lack of British made bandits, but there billions of bandits operated on old coinage to cover... ;-)

The slot machine database you both refer to on the web is rubbish, has poor info and not updated very often.

Suspect my point has been missed and I guess this is down to what people have an interest In At the end of the day.....

I am am going back into my cell now they are locking up for the night
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Re: New website features

Post by pennymachines »

I don't think I missed your point (except the part about the field indexing) but, as you say, ultimately it does come down to our interests, and of course the site reflects mine to some extent.

The '20% of foreign machines converted to British coinage' is a bit disingenuous! :lol:
The Pin Up Girl's a fairly major British revamp - cabinet, play handle and graphics, in addition to coin conversion. The Sirdar Polyphon wasn't converted. It was British built and patented (although the game incorporates a German musical movement). Everything else, so far, is 100% British.

If coin-conversion was the only significant modification, I would exclude it, but there's certainly a place here for revamped Beromat or Tom Boland bandits, etc. or anything else substantially remodelling in the UK.
widget2k4
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Re: New website features

Post by widget2k4 »

OK mr PM !THUMBS!
I will upload a few and you can filter through them. :)
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Re: New website features

Post by pennymachines »

Excellent work! !!THUMBSX2!! Really nice clear pictures too of some splendid games.

I'm starting to fill in some descriptions but I already lost two by pressing the wrong button. :smash: The Firefox add-on Lazarus Form Recovery is no longer supported. :( l realize now how often it saved me from such frustration. It seems incredible that form input saving isn't a built in browser option.
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Re: New website features

Post by widget2k4 »

Ah no way :( !!JUNK!!
I noticed website went to snail's pace when trying to add some photos, got plenty more photos of Oliver Whales, Wonders etc if you want them? Was going to add shield catcher then it came to me that I'm sure they are not English but German?
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Re: New website features

Post by pennymachines »

Site still going at snail's pace today - thought it was just me. Running an uptime check to see if there's a problem with the server.
widget2k4 wrote:got plenty more photos of Oliver Whales, Wonders etc if you want them?
Certainly, all relevant machines are wanted. !!THUMBSX2!!
widget2k4 wrote:Was going to add shield catcher then it came to me that I'm sure they are not English but German?
That's where it gets tricky. I think some may have come from Handan Ni or other UK makers, but most are German. Some have been quite extensively revamped, with cigarette payout etc.
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Re: New website features

Post by pennymachines »

Museum bugs ironed out now: multiple videos working, 'Save as Draft' working, images scaling correctly on small devices (phones etc.). There's a small issue with searching by categories (search box) which is being addressed.
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Re: New website features

Post by pennymachines »

The searching by category feature of the Archive and Museum searchboxes is now fixed.
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Re: New website features

Post by pennymachines »

pennymachines wrote: Wed May 24, 2017 5:12 pm I already lost two by pressing the wrong button. :smash: The Firefox add-on Lazarus Form Recovery is no longer supported. :( l realize now how often it saved me from such frustration. It seems incredible that form input saving isn't a built in browser option.
Just a quick heads up, although Lazarus hasn't been reanimated, there's a replacement Firefox add-on which does the same, called Form History Control (II).

Lazarus still works on Chrome and I think it's available for the Opera browser. Typio Form Recovery and Simple Form Recovery are other alternatives for Chrome.

Can save a lot of lost typing frustration. !THUMBS!

Internet Explorer doesn't apparently offer such extensions.
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Re: New website features

Post by pennymachines »

treefrog wrote: Tue Mar 14, 2017 1:36 pm one thing I always felt that would have been good on this site, was a company wide database and information portal. Adding pictures of machines, dates, and company info. I know there are sites like arcade database, but too broad and too little info can be added.
treefrog wrote: Thu Mar 16, 2017 5:35 pm ... still believe we do not have a good database of manufacturers and machines. Would be happy to assist where I can with my limited resources and knowledge.
treefrog wrote: Tue May 23, 2017 8:20 pm I see the Museum enhancements look great and fill a gap we have discussed many time mr pm. with a bit of tweaking looks like a great way in creating a slot machine database, by type, manufacturer and model with a little bit of history as a great starting point. But I think Museum is the wrong name as it is a data table or register of slot machine history. The ability to register and categorise your own machines is great, but I would be tempted to make some of these field indexed based on categories that can be searched and structured.

Next point, I have a real issue is any bandit type machine being classified as a "gambler" so are many other non bandit machines like allwins etc...I believe there should be one arm bandits category for one armed machines and fruit machines for button based machines.
treefrog wrote: Mon Jun 12, 2017 8:38 pm Another thing, please do a database of machines, ALL British operated coin op machines, including bandits we could contribute to.....would fantastic.......

Ignore me at your will
Some of the above wasn't addressed to me directly but I chatted to TF last year about this. It occurred to me that it would not be too hard to clone the work I did creating the Museum to provide a database for bandits not made in Britain.

The Museum is categorized by game type, but I'm not clear what categories would be required (if any) for bandits. TF suggests 'one armed bandit' (for bandits with handles) and 'fruit machines' (for button based machines), but I'm not sure that distinction would be widely understood. To me 'fruit machine' just implies a gaming machine (mechanical or otherwise) with fruit symbols or the like. I think dates ('30s, '40s etc.) might work better, or manufacturers. Dates can be tricky when it's not clear which side of a decade a particular machine belongs. And do we want a separate category for trade stimulators?

I'd be grateful for suggestions and to hear if other members (apart from TreeFrog and Widget) think it a worthwhile addition to the site before going any further.
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badpenny
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Re: New website features

Post by badpenny »

For what it's worth .......

Mr PM started with a statement Welcome all ye olde slot machine enthusiasts... and all ye young ones... to our website which is dedicated to those marvellous vintage British mechanical amusements and all who enjoy them.

So if that stands then elements of this site that are educational or historically factual should abide by that premise, unlike The Forum, Market, Archive and Library. Otherwise we need to change the principle of "British" or we say "Operated in Britain.
If we say Converted for British Market then we could take ownership of Boland and Gunther Wulff re-cased or do we also include American & German three reelers that are only adjusted for coins?

I too don't like three reelers/bandits being lumped in with gamblers.

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Re: New website features

Post by brigham »

I think a 'glossary of terms' might be a good thing.
Not everyone will understand the difference between 'bandits' and 'gamblers'.
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Re: New website features

Post by pennymachines »

The reason for a catch-all "Gamblers" category in the Museum is that pre-decimal British one arm bandits are almost non-existent. There are only half a dozen or so. It made more sense therefore to put them with Hidden Treasures, Supermatics, Revolving Jackpots, Stock Exchanges etc. In principle they're all the same - one or more elements spin (or rock) and there's no pretence that the player has any control of the outcome ('skill buttons' were a sop to the authorities only). A game with two hands which spin around a dial when you turn a handle (Twelvewin Clock) is essentially no different to one with three reels which spin when you pull a handle. The operators knew it, even though the authorities sometimes took a little longer to catch on.

The only pure gambling machine which seems almost to deserve its own category is the betting game, represented in Britain by the Bullion and Clement & Whales Greyhounds etc. The antecedents of these pre-date Fey's original bandit, but again there are too few British versions to justify a category. Games of (purported) skill were necessarily the stock in trade of the British Amusements machine industry.

Anyway, I digress.

If we go down the route of a bandit database as TF suggests, I assume the pupose would be to represent machines operated in British arcades but made elsewhere. That would include everything from Aristocrats to Beromats. I guess there's no reason it shouldn't include foreign skill games too, for that matter. More feedback welcome.
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Re: New website features

Post by badpenny »

I feel Three Reeler/Bandit/Handle Pull machines are a strong enough genre in their own right. Who, even outside of the hobby, hasn't heard of a one arm(ed) bandit, but who, even including those in the hobby, would associate said machine with the term "Gambler" ?
Even I raised my eyebrows in a moment of dawning about ten years ago (30 years into the hobby) when it occurred to me that Bryans Hidden Treasure and Tick Tock could be classified as such. !PUZZLED! :dammit:

I've always associated this site with English machines as I mentioned a couple of posts back, mainly due to Mr P's opening statement. I see no problem with detailing machines from Foreign'land if some member can accurately confirm having seen one offered for play in a British arcade. Otherwise there are only two options ....do nothing or describe everything ever made anywhere.

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Re: New website features

Post by coppinpr »

I believe one of the reasons this forum has become the number one slot machine forum not just in the Uk but in the world is because it has been allowed to evolve over the years to cover all types of machines from all over the world. There are those I know who would still like to think of it as a forum for UK machines but the truth is it no longer is. Its strongest theme is UK for sure but you only have to look at recent posts to see the variation of interests from foreign 3D viewers to Australian one arm bandits. I for one would like to see the museum include more non UK machines. BUT we should not expect MrP. do do all the work .As TF says the members should contribute under the strict editing of MrP. He's the guiding light here.
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Re: New website features

Post by pennymachines »

The new Auction/Market area is now up and running.
See Selling & Advertising at Pennymachines.co.uk

It includes a For Sale & Wanted section.
I've set the fees for advertising spares as low as possible 50p/month - £2 for 2 years (PayPal dock me 20p + 4.4% per transaction). I could have made it free but would have to restrict it to signed up pennymachines members or face a constant battle against Spam. As it is, the small fee should discourage Spammers and hopefully encourage hoarders to list their surplus spares.

The 'Auction' part will hopefully be launched in the future - still too buggy.
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