Backflash to the Future?

[slotibartfast]

Hello group. How rare is it for a good condition allwin to have the original backflash/topflash? I see lots going for sale on Ebay ... tidy enough looking machines cabinet and mechanics wise, but pretty much all have repro artwork. Is it rare to see all original examples nowadays? I have cash on the hip ready to buy a nice machine (at the going rate too, not looking to scalp anyone), but don't want to get one that has a computer print out as part of it. Comments from the forum experts welcomed. TIA

[treefrog]

As long as you don't buy a Oliver whales should be easy, as their artwork was not designed to last 50 years. Also most people don't seem to like much originality on machines like Bryans as well, as these get changed with a few cracks in the plastic.

In other words, avoid plastic artwork and all is good.

Wonders was good as they just used clear plastic covering over the artwork, same as the Kraft machines....

[gameswat]

Sloti, occasionally decent ones turn up but the problem you'll find is that the plastic is slowly breaking down over time. So a 1950's backflash that still appears ok today will most likely already be well on the way to degredation. I've had them literally wither away in front of me before I could even get a decent photo! Cheap plastic just doesn't last no matter what you do with it. I purchased this WIN A ROWNTREES game in the US in 2012 because it had a very decent backflash that I figured I could copy to help restore some of the other games missing art. But back in Aust it went into storage for a short time before I had a chance to remove the art to photograph it. Next time I looked it was bad, and every time since it's gotten worse and worse. I have saved a few original backflashes that were still decent, but always photographed them when out so I can reproduce them for that machine or any other down the track. And they will all need them eventually!

[widget2k4]

You could always buy a more modern one like a Nostalgic machine if you want original backflash, otherwise good luck finding a good condition one all original. Like gameswat said, even if you find a good one it will eventually need replacing. Like treefrog said, Wonders are about the best but I have still had these where the original artwork had faded to the point of nearly disappearing.

[john t peterson]

Crikey, Gameswat. I told you not to put your hot tub in the same storage unit with those allwins. Now look what happened!

J Peterson
Not so hot in the USA

[slotibartfast]

Thanks for the advice (and photos) guys. Appreciate it.

[tammy]

Read this thread with interest. I have lots of 1960s and 60s Oliver Whales allwins with excellent plastic backflashes. I personally have found it's how they have been stored in the past and if you get a good machine what conditions in your house. If machines in past have been out of say sheds or garages the backflashes do quickly deteriorate quite quickly once they come into a warmer enviroment. All I could suggest is buy bright original house kept machines. I do find it sad how many people start pulling original backflashes off just for small amounts of damage or cracks.

[widget2k4]

Machine still works the same with or without original backflash.
Personally I don't see the point in having a lovely cabinet with all new chrome etc. with a flaking falling to bits backflash, but everyone to their own.

[tammy]

I agree if the backflash is too bad you have no other choice but some collectors seem to replace with modern paper copies when the original only had minor imperfections. I had a friend collector who collected early cloth backed machines and always ripped them off to replace with modern felt, he revarnished everything, rechromed everything that they looked bbrand new..years later he told me he had come to the conclusion it was a mistake and he went too far. I surpose we are all different, i if possible love hsve they as in the arcade days. I often am amazed with re-varnished allwins how many 50 shades of brown they are when in the arcades the original light oak varnish was so pleasing to the eyes??

[brianh]

I agree it's best to keep the existing backflash if in excellent condition but there are times when you think it's too damaged to leave alone - however I will hesitate in the future before trying to remove one I thought I could "tidy up" a bit. This is before and after

Basically the old flash is, to use a technical term, knackered.
My son is seeing if he can use his computer skills to recreate the original for me but meanwhile (and this is where purists need to look away) I may replace it with a different image. At the moment I have been unable to source the packets of gum that would fit the machine but I can get mini chocolate bars that would fit so would it be sacrilege to replace the flash with a "Win a Cadbury's Chocolate" one which I do have?

[gameswat]

I don't think there's an issue changing the graphic as long as it's to one of the original options available by that maker. I've had to do it because I just could not get my hands on the particular art they started with. The cabinets are usually quite generic. Though Whales did use different size payout cups on prize machines.

Though looking at the original Wrigley art there's not a huge amount of work needed to restore that. And it's one of the nicest they ever did so I'd stick with that myself and just alter the payout tube or make a new one to hold a different size pack.

[brianh]

Thanks for the advice Gameswat and I agree the original Wrigleys flash would be better than the Cadburys one so I'll take your advice and persist with the original flash (but load it with choc bars so I have something to eat while I make a new payout tube or adapt the existing one depending on size of packets of gum I can find!). Rest of the cabinet and mechanics are really sound, just several layers of grime and blobs of paint, just needs a good clean up, sanding down and varnish, so would be a shame to change the flash (in fact the Cadburys flash is from an R & W machine anyway so would not really be "right" to use it).

[slotibartfast]

Thanks again for the extra views, people. I can see both sides of the 'argument' here. Indeed, if you are restoring an allwin to showroom condition, you would want to include a replacement backflash as part of that. Personally, I like to see the original, weathered patina - so would be looking to get a well-looked after example, albeit with the inevitable (slight) scuffs and knocks picked up during its life. The search continues.

[pennymachines]

Although I'm sure it's true the old plastics are inherently unstable, like Tammy said, you still find original flashes in excellent condition, so clearly under the right conditions deterioration is slow. The chief enemies are heat (infra red), causing distortion and chemical break down and sunlight (UV), causing colour fading. Allwins operated at outdoor travelling arcades will have suffered most and, as Gameswat attests, they don't do well in Australia's climate, if stored without air conditioning.