Jubilee Riviera won’t stop spinning

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atticbrowser
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Jubilee Riviera won’t stop spinning

Post by atticbrowser »

I acquired this rather untidy machine from a friend in the pinball community. I collected it in the summer telling myself ‘that’ll make a nice project for the quiet winter months.’ Well spring is on the horizon and I still don’t have it working. The machine does most things correctly I think. It accepts a coin and spins the reels. However what I’ll call the horizontal brake arm (do please tell me the proper name) needs a little prod before it will swing around and release the individual brake levers. Without that initial prod it just sits there. As a complete novice with these machines I had two theories. Firstly was the pivoting point of the brake arm gummed up with old dried grease? Well I sprayed the joint with solvent and sat working the mechanism repeatedly to see if it freed up. It didn’t.my only other thought was to note that there appears to be a spring involved in the action and I wondered if that was not strong enough to give the brake arm its initial pull? I’d greatly value advice and suggestions. I’ve taken a short initial video...link below...and will film whatever else you need. Thanks in anticipation.

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Re: Jubilee Riviera won’t stop spinning

Post by badpenny »

Hi ……..

Clearly the clock governor is stopping shortly after you pull the handle.
It shouldn't.
Take the mech out of the case and watch it from the back when you play it. You may see something that is blocking it momentarily.
It might be grease in the clock which you should clean out. Ideally remove the clock and submerge it in diesel or some active agent even petrol. If you don't feel up to that, then sit the whole mech on "Beloved's" table don't worry about the antique lace table cloth her granny gave her for a wedding present, it'll be fine!
Now spray it liberally with WD 40 or similar.

If you're not sure how to cycle the mech when it's out of the case then check out This Thread You'll see a lot more from the back.

BP !THUMBS!
PS make sure you have a full report in triplicate on my desk by 8.30 am tomorrow.
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Re: Jubilee Riviera won’t stop spinning

Post by atticbrowser »

Thank you very much BP. I will do as you suggest and report back (although possibly not by 8.30 tomorrow morning.)
Is there a useful ‘exploded diagram’ type thing somewhere that shows and labels all the parts of a machine? If not, what does a clock governor look like please?
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Re: Jubilee Riviera won’t stop spinning

Post by badpenny »

The Clock is the gubbins with the spinny thing on top in the background.
On a mechanical bandit, when you pull the handle you're winding up a clockwork engine.
When it clicks over and fires it's running back down again. Like all clockwork mechanisms it needs to be regulated or slowed down, otherwise it would expel all of its energy in a second.
So that's what the clock governor does, and it's slowed down by the air vane on the top. I don't recommend you do it, but if you stretched the vane out you'd slow it down more, and if you curl it up on itself there'd be less air resistance and it would speed up the cycle.
Tomorrow we'll cover the Detroit V12 2 stroke diesel and its influence on the design of ping pong balls.

BP :didact:
PS I wouldn't worry too much about the jargon and names, we all tend to make up our own anyway. What one person would call a Flange Waffler I'd probably call a Back Pedalling Mud Guard.
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Re: Jubilee Riviera won’t stop spinning

Post by atticbrowser »

Thanks BP.
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Re: Jubilee Riviera won’t stop spinning

Post by coppinpr »

If bp's ramblings don't work (they usually do to be honest) check the bar that I can see you push to get it restarted. It could be this bar is catching on something below it as it returns or in the slot it passes through on the far left.
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Re: Jubilee Riviera won’t stop spinning

Post by atticbrowser »

Will do!
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Re: Jubilee Riviera won’t stop spinning

Post by atticbrowser »

OK. I’ve spent a happy hour in the back garden squirting copious amounts of Pro Gas releasing fluid in to the clock, governor and all the joints that seem implicated in the movement of the brake arm. I repeatedly triggered the mechanism to ensure I was reaching all the parts. No change. I then sprayed copious quantities of WD40 in the same areas, again firing the mechanism as I went along. I’m now fairly confident that there are no joints gummed up with old grease.

I examined all the areas of movement to see if there was something catching and preventing the brake arm from moving. I can’t see any obstructions or damage.

To my novice eye it seemed as if the mechanism doesn’t quite have enough strength to get started.

I’ve taken another video from a different position with the mech out of the machine. The second spin probably shows the issue most clearly and demonstrates how little ‘help’ I have to give the brake lever to get it started.

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Re: Jubilee Riviera won’t stop spinning

Post by gameswat »

atticbrowser wrote: Mon Mar 11, 2019 2:59 pm To my novice eye it seemed as if the mechanism doesn’t quite have enough strength to get started.
Except it does, as can be seen with the clock running for a short time then abruptly stopping. There must be some kind of mechanical binding in the system. With these kind of cases all you can do is be methodical about it and start at one end of the chain reaction and slowly take each piece apart and look for wear and tear etc. Eventually you'll find either one bad piece or possibly several adding up to cause it. The good thing is by getting your hands dirty you'll quickly start to understand the machine and your confidence will soar! Good luck.
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Re: Jubilee Riviera won’t stop spinning

Post by atticbrowser »

Ah I see what you mean! I hadn’t spotted that brief moment of spinning before it stops. OK work clothes on again tomorrow and I’ll try to track it down. Thank you.
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Re: Jubilee Riviera won’t stop spinning

Post by badpenny »

It's often the spinny vane catching on something as they are quite frail and easily bent.
However it stops in two different places in your video. So I doubt it's that.
I think it might be one of the linkages catching.

Instead of restarting it the way you are, try flicking the vane very gently. If it moves then it's not the vane and you need to look elsewhere.
You'll notice that the levers coming out of the back of the clock operate the three reel stops and the coin slide release, there are several linkages any of which might have a rough edge. That's where I'd be looking.

BP !PUZZLED!
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Re: Jubilee Riviera won’t stop spinning

Post by coppinpr »

First test is to disconnect the arm you have to push from the clock then fire up the mech and see if the clock still stops. Remember the clock is doing several jobs all at the same time. If there is nothing binding on the control arms (the above test should confirm this if the clock still stops), the problem could be inside the clock. Taking the clock apart seems a daunting task at first but it's not that bad and can pay dividends. They are often full of oxidised grease, not to mention odd coins frozen in with the grease. You will also see if there is any damage to the cogs or ratchets. There is a good run through on servicing a clock at the link below (you should not need to remove the bracket, so pick up the method from the 5th photo onward).
Removing a jammed clock bracket and servicing the clock
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Re: Jubilee Riviera won’t stop spinning

Post by atticbrowser »

Thank you all for your very helpful advice. I began by looking for possible points where the mechanism could be binding. The only possibility I could identify was where the horizontal brake lever travels through the slot at the far left. There does seem to be contact between the lever and the lower part of the slot. But then looking at the system I see that the three individual vertical brake levers are pressing down on the horizontal lever when it is in the ‘cocked’ position. So isn’t it inevitable that the horizontal lever will be pressing slightly on the bottom of the slot? Or should there be a clear gap below the lever so it can move without touching the slot? If there should be a gap, then my mech doesn’t have it. If this is the isssue what would the solution be? Hope this all makes sense.
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Re: Jubilee Riviera won’t stop spinning

Post by badpenny »

I doubt that's it, the big spring at the back which pulls the clock should easily overcome any friction that causes.

Like I said in my post, it's likely to be either the clock is jamming on something internally or one of the linkages has a sharp edge.
So …..
Let it jam
Then apply gently pressure to the air vane, you'll feel if the restriction is in the clock.
If it's not then …..
Check each of the linkages coming out of the back of the clock. There is likely to be a lot of play in each one as these are not high precision engineering. It not only operates the three reel stops but also the coin slide bundle release at the very end of the cycle. It might be a split pin holding a linkage together that is catching on another part.

BP :!?!:
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Re: Jubilee Riviera won’t stop spinning

Post by atticbrowser »

Thank you BP. That will, be my task for tomorrow.
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Re: Jubilee Riviera won’t stop spinning

Post by atticbrowser »

Just a quick update, with not a lot to report.

I’ve been continuing to fire the mechanism with mostly the same result BUT on two occasions it has spontaneously applied the brakes correctly and so completed the cycle. I wasn’t able to identify anything about those two successful cycles that was different from the usual stuck ones but it has made me feel that I can’t be far off a solution.

In addition on a few occasions by lifting the vertical reel brake levers, which press down on the horizontal brake lever, the mechanism has completed its cycle. Which seems to support BPs suggestion that it is somewhere in that area that the binding is taking place.

BP also talked about ‘roughness’ (presumably of some contact surfaces). There are certainly some rather rough spots I’ve identified... but what do I do about them? Lubricating hasn’t done the trick. Can I use a file safely on these mechanical parts?

Thank you as always.
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Re: Jubilee Riviera won’t stop spinning

Post by atticbrowser »

An update and request for advice on next steps please. I’ve not been idle. Apart from earning a living I’ve been fiddling with the mech every day in the hope that either repeated firing would loosen a gummed up joint or I’d be able to see where the jamming is. I’ve also fired vast quantities of plus gas releasing agent and WD40 anywhere I can reach.

I’ve now decided to overcome my reluctance to take things apart (for fear of never getting them back together) and accepted, that as previously advised, I need to start dismantling the mech to see where it is binding.

So far I’ve cocked the mechanism to pull back the payout levers, removed the reel axle, and taken off a couple of coin chute things at the front. Sadly this hasn’t been enough to be able to wiggle the reel bundle out. So I’d appreciate advice on what to take off next, so as to be able to get the reel bundle out.

I’m working on the theory that with the reels out I’ll be more easily able to see what is happening. Short video attached and please tell me if you need more pictures.

Thanks as always for your advice.

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Re: Jubilee Riviera won’t stop spinning

Post by treefrog »

Yes, removing the reel bundle is a good move as you can get to everything where you need to observe. Also you can operate the machine once out still.

I don’t work on Jubilees much myself and removal is a little more difficult with the coin entry attached over the top. But with the axle removed, you need to unclip the reel stop lever springs attached at the back and lift and pull the reel bundle forward. You may need to ensure the upper fingers are pulled back to ensure they are not stopping the movement. The reel arms can be slid out once all is dropped away from machine.
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Re: Jubilee Riviera won’t stop spinning

Post by coppinpr »

Once you release the springs holding the reel stop levers (these run across the middle of the reel bundle and there are three of them) as TF says it will come away easier. It's always a bit fiddly. You may need to open the gap between the reels with your fingers to get the reel stop levers through the gap as you remove the reel bundle. Also, remove the main coin tube. This is attached with a single bolt at the top right (as you face the mech). This will let you see all that is going on with the slides and the parts that move them. NO OIL OR WD40 near any part that comes in contact with a coin.
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Re: Jubilee Riviera won’t stop spinning

Post by atticbrowser »

Thank you both! I’ll get on with this and come back when I have some progress.
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