Hoopers Automatics Skill Score pinball machine
- slotalot
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Re: Hoopers Automatics Skill Score pinball machine
as I was awake anyway...... lol.pennymachines wrote: ↑Wed Jun 17, 2020 10:37 pm I'm not sure when these were made, but they look very '30s,
I thought I would add this... The badge on the machine I had states, 146 Pentonville Road, as Hoopers' address, and according to Paul Braithwaite, they relocated there in 1934, so that should give us the earliest date for manufacture.
Re: Hoopers Automatics Skill Score pinball machine
PM, I'd suggest you're very likely right about a wartime built machine. I think they recycled those Bally style spring bumpers in a simpler way to save on the trouble of screening playfields, and the scoring unit appears to be a ripoff from the Daval American Beauty of June 1934. I have a spare unit here after having restored the machine for a friend. Since it uses Bally bumpers then it can't be earlier than Dec 1936.
Re: Hoopers Automatics Skill Score pinball machine
Well mine arrived today. A bit of a state as expected, but seems to be all there apart from the cash box cover so a good start. Appears to have all 5 balls too!
Will need a total strip as all the metal bits mechs are rusted but not beyond recovery I don’t think. Will also need a total rewire I suspect as the insulation is falling off in places.
First challenge will be to get into it. The two large screws on the top edge nearest the player appear to be the key to opening it are totally rusted in. I’ll have a go with a screw extractor but failing that I might have to drill the heads off and then replace the top strip of wood.
Lots of fun to come....
Will need a total strip as all the metal bits mechs are rusted but not beyond recovery I don’t think. Will also need a total rewire I suspect as the insulation is falling off in places.
First challenge will be to get into it. The two large screws on the top edge nearest the player appear to be the key to opening it are totally rusted in. I’ll have a go with a screw extractor but failing that I might have to drill the heads off and then replace the top strip of wood.
Lots of fun to come....
- slotalot
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Re: Hoopers Automatics Skill Score pinball machine
Try heating the screws with a hot soldering iron, that might free them up.
Re: Hoopers Automatics Skill Score pinball machine
Are they actually screws geoff? On any other pinball those are coach bolts that have nuts to be undone once the door is off inside the upper door edge. Screws wouldn't make sense as anybody could get into the machine. But having said that Hoopers seemed to have done things their own way, so who knows!?!
Re: Hoopers Automatics Skill Score pinball machine
No they are not screws! Thanks - my cursory look ignored this fact! They are now out, revealing two things....
Firstly, the thing has been eaten by worms at some time. They only seem to have been interested in the ply playfield. It’s mostly OK, but feels slightly soft in a couple of places. Just battling with my conscience as to whether to replace the ply - lots of work drilling, refitting and wiring all those bits - or to leave be. I'm erring in leaving be, although I do wonder if I should do a woodworm treatment just in case they are still at it in there? I don’t really need to buy 5 litres of the stuff though! Any thoughts?
The second thing is that mine might be a mark 2 compared to Stuart’s, and it might solve the reason for the difference of opinion about how they work....
The metal playfield in mine is connected to 0v. However the ball is not used as a connection, the playfield merely serves to connect all the bumper springs. There are then brass tabs with a hole beneath each spring which the spring hits, completing the circuit, as someone else described. See pics. I assume mine came later, maybe due to the probs Stuart described with having to keep it so clean.
I’m wondering on mine if the capacitor ‘thing’ also serves to dampen spring bounce causing multiple scoring when hit, as I can imagine a bit of a ‘boing’ effect?!
It looks like the green of mine is original compared to Stuart’s brown. Maybe denoting mk 2! A bit like having a vinyl roof.
Firstly, the thing has been eaten by worms at some time. They only seem to have been interested in the ply playfield. It’s mostly OK, but feels slightly soft in a couple of places. Just battling with my conscience as to whether to replace the ply - lots of work drilling, refitting and wiring all those bits - or to leave be. I'm erring in leaving be, although I do wonder if I should do a woodworm treatment just in case they are still at it in there? I don’t really need to buy 5 litres of the stuff though! Any thoughts?
The second thing is that mine might be a mark 2 compared to Stuart’s, and it might solve the reason for the difference of opinion about how they work....
The metal playfield in mine is connected to 0v. However the ball is not used as a connection, the playfield merely serves to connect all the bumper springs. There are then brass tabs with a hole beneath each spring which the spring hits, completing the circuit, as someone else described. See pics. I assume mine came later, maybe due to the probs Stuart described with having to keep it so clean.
I’m wondering on mine if the capacitor ‘thing’ also serves to dampen spring bounce causing multiple scoring when hit, as I can imagine a bit of a ‘boing’ effect?!
It looks like the green of mine is original compared to Stuart’s brown. Maybe denoting mk 2! A bit like having a vinyl roof.
Re: Hoopers Automatics Skill Score pinball machine
The hole through which the end of the bumper spring protrudes is frighteningly small.
It will certainly register at the slightest touch; but setting the springs, especially after years of use, looks like being a major job.
It will certainly register at the slightest touch; but setting the springs, especially after years of use, looks like being a major job.
- slotalot
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Re: Hoopers Automatics Skill Score pinball machine
Very Interesting, but not entirely unexpected.
We have to remember that these machines were made long before any sort of standard or kite mark was applied. Tthey would to some extent be "making it up as they go along".
My opinion is that your machine would have come first, as they would have been trying to copy the American design, but with the absence of the carbon ring forming the contact with the metal pin, and the small hole size, leads me to think that there was more chance of the metal to metal contact welding shut due to the spark. If this was to happen, it could lead to damage of the score up coil, or even a fire.
My second reason for thinking yours came first is, why would they alter the design and make the machine more costly to build? By doing away with the pin and ring, and replacing it with the ball making direct contact, you do away with a lot of extra parts. There is no adjustments to make and keep up with, and it would be quicker and cheaper to produce.
These machine were never meant to be of high quality, but back in the day they would have been quite a novelty as most pinballs of this date didn't use electricity.
I rest my case.
Re: Hoopers Automatics Skill Score pinball machine
Interesting! Yes you could be right in terms of order of production. The hole is very small - that was my first thought too! Actually alignment doesn’t look as bad as i first feared. You can rotate the springs quite easily for one axis of movement and the ‘holes’ can be moved through the other axis. Of course how long they will stay aligned in use is quite another matter.
I guess the big capacitor was partly to stop the arcing although how much we will see. I’m also doubtful about how much capacitance will be left in mine. I don’t really want to remove it but guess I might need to maybe add another in if this is a problem once up and running.
I guess the big capacitor was partly to stop the arcing although how much we will see. I’m also doubtful about how much capacitance will be left in mine. I don’t really want to remove it but guess I might need to maybe add another in if this is a problem once up and running.
Re: Hoopers Automatics Skill Score pinball machine
Despite saying this was a project for later I couldn’t resist getting started!
Despite my hopes the ply supporting the metal play field is knackered. The worms have done their worst and it’s turning to dust. I’ve now stripped all the components from the playfield (there are quite a few!) and need to get some new 9mm ply and start drilling.
I’ve been ordering some new screws ready for the re assembly as all the ones removed are ravaged by rust and unusable. Replacing in brass and stainless. I’m having a problem sourcing the 2 domed coach bolts that go in the front of the machine though. I’m not sure of the exact original size but they are about 4mm diameter and 90mm long so an m4 90mm or longer would work perfectly. Except I can’t find one. M4 coach bolts don’t seem to be a ‘thing’. I could go to m5 but even in these the longest I can find is 70mm. To get the length I have to go to m6 which I could probable do but will start looking pretty big on the front.
Does anyone have any sources where I might get something or bright ideas?
Thanks
Despite my hopes the ply supporting the metal play field is knackered. The worms have done their worst and it’s turning to dust. I’ve now stripped all the components from the playfield (there are quite a few!) and need to get some new 9mm ply and start drilling.
I’ve been ordering some new screws ready for the re assembly as all the ones removed are ravaged by rust and unusable. Replacing in brass and stainless. I’m having a problem sourcing the 2 domed coach bolts that go in the front of the machine though. I’m not sure of the exact original size but they are about 4mm diameter and 90mm long so an m4 90mm or longer would work perfectly. Except I can’t find one. M4 coach bolts don’t seem to be a ‘thing’. I could go to m5 but even in these the longest I can find is 70mm. To get the length I have to go to m6 which I could probable do but will start looking pretty big on the front.
Does anyone have any sources where I might get something or bright ideas?
Thanks
Re: Hoopers Automatics Skill Score pinball machine
Have you tried Buckwerx rockola pinball spares.
The front frame holding down bolts might do.
The front frame holding down bolts might do.
Re: Hoopers Automatics Skill Score pinball machine
You could cut and braze a couple shorter bolts to get the length. Or cut your own thread on a piece or rod and just braze the upper with a coach head.
Re: Hoopers Automatics Skill Score pinball machine
Thanks for the suggestions. No brazing torch sadly! I have now managed to find some m5 100mm bolts so think I’ll give them a shot. Cheers
Re: Hoopers Automatics Skill Score pinball machine
Hey Geoff, you can braze parts quite easily with a cheap self igniting torch that uses the disposable Mapp gas bottles. I use mine almost every day as much less hassle than pulling out the acetylene unless I have a large job needing serious temps. There are some awesome silver solders available that use much lower heat than bronzes but still more than enough strength for almost any machine issue. Should be a standard tool in ANY workshop I'd suggest!
Re: Hoopers Automatics Skill Score pinball machine
Hi gameswat
Yes I think I might need to invest in one of those. It would be handy. I just never seem to have ventured beyond soldering into brazing and welding but it would be useful. I’ll take a look.
Just spent the last hour freeing up the rusty coin slide mech on this machine. Still slightly stiff but a massive improvement on the non moving item it was.
Yes I think I might need to invest in one of those. It would be handy. I just never seem to have ventured beyond soldering into brazing and welding but it would be useful. I’ll take a look.
Just spent the last hour freeing up the rusty coin slide mech on this machine. Still slightly stiff but a massive improvement on the non moving item it was.
Re: Hoopers Automatics Skill Score pinball machine
Which reminds me that one of the common uses I have for the Mapp gas torch is freeing up rusted nuts, bolts and parts. A quick shot of heat and some penetrating oil is often all it takes to break the rust bond. Sometimes a few more goes needed as best to start slow.
Re: Hoopers Automatics Skill Score pinball machine
So help needed here as the project progresses. I’ve now rebuilt the playfield with some non eaten ply and just about got all the stuff back in the right order. Now to the skill score counter dial.
It was all rusted up but managed to strip and free it off. However the spring which tensions and I assume returns it to zero is rusted through and broken. So the question is where the hell do I find a new one. I searched for clock springs on eBay but they all seem bigger and too strong for this job. This one feels pretty light tension wise. The spring metal is about 4mm wide. Any clues? Can I fashion my own? In which can how?
Thanks!
It was all rusted up but managed to strip and free it off. However the spring which tensions and I assume returns it to zero is rusted through and broken. So the question is where the hell do I find a new one. I searched for clock springs on eBay but they all seem bigger and too strong for this job. This one feels pretty light tension wise. The spring metal is about 4mm wide. Any clues? Can I fashion my own? In which can how?
Thanks!
- slotalot
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Re: Hoopers Automatics Skill Score pinball machine
Have a word with this chap, tell him what you are after, he might be able to help you.. even if you have to send him a sample of the broken one.. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CLOCK-SUSPEN ... Swdu9auVfB
Re: Hoopers Automatics Skill Score pinball machine
Thanks. I’ve messaged him. Fingers crossed. I had hoped I could re shape the end of the broken part and that there would be enough remaining to make it work. However, it’s so brittle that if you try to do anything with it it just falls apart.
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