Question for the experts, on automatic payout allwin

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scottie
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Question for the experts, on automatic payout allwin

Post by scottie »

Hello.
Here is a question for the experts.
I have only this one picture...sorry.
I understand it is a B.M. co automatic payout allwin.
The question is, can you tell me if you see anything missing?
The owner said it doesn't work and thinks that's because there is some part missing... but cannot tell me what the part is, what it looks like or anything else.... It doesn't sound like they're too sure about it so.... what do you think?
By the way... not too sure what the machine is called but there are five airplanes on the front of it... hope that helps.
Thanks again,
scottie.
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treefrog
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Re: question for the experts, on automatic payout allwin ???

Post by treefrog »

If you search on here there are some threads on these machines and the issues with them.....nice looking machine though, shame the top glass is missing, top price though, well it would be if shipped to the UK !!>*<!!

Looks all there, even the teeth look good

See below link of piccies and specs

The BMCo Coin-Repeat Allwin
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pennymachines
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Re: question for the experts, on automatic payout allwin ???

Post by pennymachines »

The crucial part to examine is the cast aluminium carousel which holds the pennies ready for payout (not visible in your picture). These are vulnerable to damage and are difficult/impossible to repair satisfactorily. A BM Co. auto-pay Airplane sold last month at Tennants Auction Centre (see Arena). Sadly, as you can see from the pictures they provided, this example was damaged and, unless you could remake the intricate carousel casting, only good for spares.
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scottie
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Re: Question for the experts, on automatic payout allwin

Post by scottie »

Thank you so much for the information.
Now I am really on the fence to buy it or not... I don't want a machine I can't fix.
Scottie
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scottie
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Re: Question for the experts, on automatic payout allwin

Post by scottie »

hello again
I finally got some pictures of the aluminium carousel.
looks ok
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john t peterson
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Re: Question for the experts, on automatic payout allwin

Post by john t peterson »

Scottie,

If you look closely, you will see that two of the cast "fingers" that capture the coins dropping have been replaced. The work is good and that part of the carousel should function properly. The problem is the missing tooth on the master drive wheel. It is clearly visible in the second photo. I do not have one of these automatic pay-out games so I cannot definitively say what impact a missing gear tooth will have on the operation of the game but I'm guessing that it may be the reason the machine is not functioning. Replacing a missing tooth would be problematic.

J Peterson
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gameswat
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Re: Question for the experts, on automatic payout allwin

Post by gameswat »

Good to see you're still alive and well in coin-op world JP! That missing tooth is the same as shown in the mech PM posted pics of. I've never worked on this mech but I imagine the only teeth needed are the ones directly next to each coin holder.
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Re: Question for the experts, on automatic payout allwin

Post by scottie »

thanks john
yes I see it now
I really don't know how that could be repaired, other than welding in a piece of metal and grinding it down to the right shape...

so correct me if I am wrong.......could I "set" the game up so it works fine till it gest to the broke tooth and then move the carousel again so it works .I know this could be a pain ,but at least it would be working till I come up with a idea

I think gameswat might be right, I wonder if I could take the game apart and line up the master drive wheel with the carousel...????
scottie
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Re: Question for the experts, on automatic payout allwin

Post by gameswat »

Oops, I didn't make that clear at all. !PUNISH! There isn't anything wrong with that toothed wheel on either machine. Both are as original, the tooth is supposed to be missing I'm sure. It would be almost impossible to snap one of those brass teeth off! And even if it had it would be easy enough to solder a piece of brass to replace it. Not a lot of stesss on those teeth.
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scottie
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Re: Question for the experts, on automatic payout allwin

Post by scottie »

hi gameswat
so the wheel was made like that???..missing teeth,,,really !PUZZLED!......
okay then....
hopefully the seller will get back to me and sell it at a fair price
thanks again for all your help
scottie
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Re: Question for the experts, on automatic payout allwin

Post by wembleylion »

Hi Scottie,

Clearly the teeth are part of a ratchet system that controls the carousel and moves it around.

However the problem is complicated by the fact that in Mr PM’s photo the long horizontal lever, at the top of the door, is missing, as is the ratchet lifting arm that drops down from it to the right hand side of the toothed wheel. Also missing in your (Scottie's) photo, I think, is a connecting link goes to from the above horizontal lever to the small lever in the top of the coin chute.

I think that as the coin drops in the chute it lowers the horizontal lever thus lifting the drop arm to ratchet the toothed wheel around one tooth so that the coin can fall into an empty slot in the carousel.

On Mr PM’s photos the horizontal bar that runs across immediately above the carousel is missing on your (Scottie's) photo. I think this bar acts as a backstop for the toothed wheel ratchet and plays a part in the pay-out mechanism by moving the drop arm away from the toothed wheel so allowing the carousel to drop back one slot and effect a pay-out. There is a pin on the back of the horizontal bar and the drop arm's bracket is slotted for this to happen.

If you look closely at Mr PM’s top two photos you will see that there are two other missing teeth; one at the top where the coins enter the carousel from the coin chute and one at the bottom just to the right of the weight.

I think the reason for the missing tooth next to the weight is that when all the slots are full the carousel needs to stop with the bypass coin chute aligned, so the coins go into the cash box, without the drop arm continually trying to drive the toothed wheel around. A missing tooth is a very simple way to achieve this. The other two gaps, I think, are also do with stopping the carousel at ether end of its travel and / or for effecting a pay-out but without being able to see the mech. behind the aluminium carousel cover I can't be sure..

Apologies for the overlong explanation but I hope this helps.

John
Last edited by wembleylion on Sun Sep 21, 2014 9:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Question for the experts, on automatic payout allwin

Post by pennymachines »

That's right John - the "missing" brass teeth are absent for the reasons you surmised.

The left tip of the long pivoting arm which is missing in Scottie's picture, and against which the inserted penny falls, would be easy to replace but care must be taken to preserve balance on the arm. There's some counterweight adjustment on the other end of it.

The quality of the tooth repair on the casting is difficult to judge from the tiny pictures but I've known repairs on these which looked good but proved unsatisfactory and eventually failed.

Pictures of the complete mechanism with diagrams are in the aforelinked Arena article.
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Re: Question for the experts, on automatic payout allwin

Post by wembleylion »

Oh dear; or words to that effect! I wish I had seen the description in Arena and Treefrog's link; it would have saved me an hour's typing. :cry:

The Melvyn Wright link is brilliant. B.M.Co. AUTOMATIC PAYOUT ALLWINS

John
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Re: Question for the experts, on automatic payout allwin

Post by pennymachines »

:lol: But it's more fun to work it out yourself isn't it? !THUMBS!
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Re: Question for the experts, on automatic payout allwin

Post by wembleylion »

Certainly is Mr PM; I really enjoy these type of mechanical puzzles and I 'Take my hat off' at those who designed them in the first place.

John
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Re: Question for the experts, on automatic payout allwin

Post by scottie »

wow ok I think I got it.
missing teeth ok
would I be right saying I am missing 2 parts or is it 3
its the arm right above the carousel and another arm connected to the right hand side of the previous mention
I think I could make a arm or two
thank you wembleylion and mr P.M
scottie
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scottie
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Re: Question for the experts, on automatic payout allwin

Post by scottie »

I just went to the Melvyn Wright web site (I am not a home right now so I have high speed internet)...
I saw the automatic payout article on the B M co ,,,great description,,,,pictures,,, and even video ...
kind of makes one think, how someone could come up with a idea like that 60 to 70 years ago and design it and build it...no electronics , no computer,...love it....100 percent mechanical...
once again !WORSHIPFULL!
\thank-you
p.s I will let you know how it goes..
scottie
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Re: Question for the experts, on automatic payout allwin

Post by gameswat »

scottie wrote: Sun Sep 21, 2014 11:52 pm p.s I will let you know how it goes..
Pm asked the same question a year ago.....................!PUZZLED! :!?!:
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Re: Question for the experts, on automatic payout allwin

Post by scottie »

And your point is ,,,,,,,,
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gameswat
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Re: Question for the experts, on automatic payout allwin

Post by gameswat »

Well you asked a lot of questions about that non working machine in the US and then clearly said you would tell us how your deal went, but never another word about it!?!? :burp: :burp: :burp: :burp: :burp:
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