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bob
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Re: Automatic Sports Company Golf machine help needed

Postby bob » Tue Sep 08, 2015 1:50 pm

When I spoke with you on the phone Rory I wasn't sure of the Golf machine date but wrongly thought that it was quite a bit later than the football. When I checked today I found that the actual dates are not that far apart. 1899 for the two man footballer and 1903 for both the six man footballer and the golf machine, as you've already found from the patents and Braithwaite etc. I also have dated postcards of the Football and Golf machines side by side on location just after the turn of the century with the Golf having the tall marquee.
I doubt the Golf machines used recycled Football machine cases as they came out at the same time as the six man footballer. The mermaid cased gun machines did not use surplus recycled Yacht race cases, they were Yacht race games brought back from location and converted to gun machines as the Yacht race games were not profitable. They took so long to play that they were not popular and did not make as much money as a quick gun game. This is why there is only one Yacht Race remaining world wide as it came to Australia before they were converted in the UK.
Yacht Race.jpg
Yacht Race.jpg (22.38 KiB) Viewed 2015 times
Yacht Race Close Up.jpg
Yacht Race Close Up.jpg (21.16 KiB) Viewed 2015 times
Last edited by bob on Tue Sep 08, 2015 2:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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gameswat
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Re: Automatic Sports Company Golf machine help needed

Postby gameswat » Tue Sep 08, 2015 1:56 pm

I certainly didn't mean to imply there were NOS cases of any kind sitting around the Mathewson factory!

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pennymachines
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Re: Automatic Sports Company Golf machine help needed

Postby pennymachines » Tue Sep 08, 2015 2:27 pm

Welcome Tom to PennyMachines.co.uk and congratulations on your splendid purchase!

I believe at least two of our members here have Sport Co. Golfers, but in view of the machine's value, might understandably shy away from identifying themselves. Perhaps you'll be contacted by PM or email though. Further to the fascinating input from Bob and Gameswat, all I can offer is a larger version of the old Bolland photo Bob posted, and another picture which Bryan's Fan gave me yesterday (from a Bolland negative, I think).
golf.jpg
golf2.jpg

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gameswat
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Re: Automatic Sports Company Golf machine help needed

Postby gameswat » Mon Sep 14, 2015 1:52 pm

Tom, from the photos and machine history it looks like it was probably converted to take a nickel? If so, possibly the coin return was removed as it wasn't an easy conversion? I've seen this happen a bit on English/Euro machines in the States. I have done very minor work on one of these Golf machines but was over 10 years ago and not my machine, so little memory of how it worked and I never bothered to take any photos sadly. The back door is just a flat steel plate so easy enough to make. Though to do it justice would be nice to find some antique steel which will have a rough surface where it was hand rolled in a press I guess? I'll bet those men are loose after over 100 years of putting! Games like these always get extra thrashing too because kids will endlessly pull levers to see movement without having to spend any money. Seems doubtful the machine has ever been properly restored, just repaired by operators. So at some point when you have the time and commitment you'll need to pull the whole thing apart on a bench and look closely at every single piece. That's the only way to truly find out which bolts, shafts, wires, rods etc are worn and need repair or replacement, and what is ok. I have to do this even on electro-mech machines that are only 30 + years old, so the Golf will definitely need the attention to get it back to "chip shot shape". Say that ten times quickly!

sweetmeats
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Re: Automatic Sports Company Golf machine help needed

Postby sweetmeats » Fri Sep 18, 2015 5:05 pm

The machine you have is extremely rare and think you brought it very cheaply even without a stand, I know of only two others in the states one came from Australia and one from England also there are still two in England if there are still any in Australia Bob would know. As a member of COCA I suggest that you ask other collectors as I know a member has one I saw it on a COCA visit to Boston he did not what it was however I told him it was from a British machine [ thinking of the football machine] and would be worth at least $5000 to anyone who had a top and wanted a stand. For a golfer would be worth $10,000 the last time one sold complete was over $50,000 . Going onto the thread of the shooters I understood the mermaids were converted on site to shooters and operated by Matherson I have never seen a castle/lighthouse on any postcard on site however if examined closely the only alteration from the mermaid top is the small shell to the top is replaced by a small battlement the seaweed design to the top remain as does the fish coin entry

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bob
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Re: Morphy Auctions Coin-Op & Advertising, May 14-15

Postby bob » Thu May 19, 2016 6:36 am

Topic split from Morphy Auctions Coin-Op & Advertising, May 14-15 and merged - Site Admin.

I imagine the high estimate and amazing result for the Mermaid Artillery Duel machine was due in part to the previous sale for a Mermaid gun machine in 2010 as reported here.
This was a single gun machine housed in a mermaid cabinet. There was also a game called Shooting Big Game using a Matthewson Mermaid cabinet, or a cabinet that has been variously described as a fort or castle or lighthouse type. Some had a “fort” type top and some retained the seashell at the top of the cabinet. They may have been Matthewson or Bolland conversions. It may have been that the lighthouse type cabinet was originally designed for locations where the bare breasted mermaid was not deemed suitable, or possibly when the Yacht Race machines were converted to gun games.
Matthewson's Shooting Big Game532.jpg
Shooting Big Game
Matthewson's Shooting Big Game 529.jpg
Shooting Big Game
Matthewson patented the Yacht Race game mechanism in 1900, patent no. 19,812 and patented the Mermaid cabinet in 1902, design patent no. 399522. The design patent for the lighthouse fort type may exist somewhere around this period but I did not search for it at time. It would probably not be that difficult for someone in the UK to find it now, if such a design patent actually exists, but when I searched for the Matthewson design patent by phone from here at the British Patent Office many years ago it was both difficult and costly for me. Finding Matthewson’s mermaid cabinet design patents did however disprove the tale that these were converted aquariums, a rather unlikely story that Bolland had told Jon Gresham and other collectors and researchers and thus became accepted as fact.
Matthewson's Yacht Race Design Patent498.jpg
Matthewson Yacht Race Design Patent
Matthewson only patented one gun game mechanism, the two player Artillery Duel in 1912 patent no. 8005. This would probably have been when he took all the Yacht Races off location and converted them to gun games. By that time the Mermaid Yacht Race would most likely have already found its way to Australia and remained intact as a Yacht Race game.

I am attaching a photo of The Artillery Duel with a pistol grip as in Matthewson’s mechanism patent and also one with pistol grip type trigger mechanisms with a Bolland Direction plate. Both games have a “fort” type top. I am also attaching two photos of Shooting Big Game machines which is another single gun game that was used in these cabinets. Interestingly, one of them has a “fort” type top whereas the other had a shell type top. These photos came from a friend in the UK who did quite a lot of research on the Matthewson machines many years ago, so I am not sure of all the details of the origin of these photos any more.
Matthewson's The Artillery Duel530.jpg
The Artillery Duel
Matthewson -  Bolland's The Artillery Duel531.jpg
Matthewson - Bolland The Artillery Duel
I’ll also attach a photo of the Artillery Duel sold at auction in 2010 and one sold at an auction by Phillip’s in London 1992 for 13,500 pounds including buyer’s premium etc.
Matthewson Mermaid Marksman War Game02.jpg
Mermaid Marksman War Game
Matthewson Mermaid Marksman War Game02.jpg (25.05 KiB) Viewed 2005 times
Matthewson's Artillery Duel in Fort Case Auction.jpg
Artillery Duel in Fort Case
Many years ago, I found an identical Mermaid base made of zinc in an antique shop in Sassafras, a country village about an hour’s drive from Melbourne for sale for about $1,000 (500 pounds). This was made of zinc as used in some of the coin of vending machines, like the Leoni French hen and the Bamboula cigar vending machine in the Morphy auction last weekend. This was a common French manufacturing technique that for some reason was not employed in Germany or the UK. The owner of the antique shop was a Belgian who imported most of his stock for the shop in containers from Belgium. The next time I visited the shop the stand was gone, sold to a local lady as a flower stand. Sadly, I never did get a chance to speak to the shop owner to inquire about its origins before the shop disappeared, nor was I able to get a photo of it - just another mystery related to the Matthewson machines.
Last edited by bob on Fri May 20, 2016 12:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

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bryans fan
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Re: Morphy Auctions Coin-Op & Advertising, May 14-15

Postby bryans fan » Thu May 19, 2016 7:21 am

What a mine of information you are Bob, well done, great post! !WORSHIPFULL!

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pennymachines
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Re: Automatic Sports Company games

Postby pennymachines » Thu May 19, 2016 3:38 pm

Thanks Bob for all that great info. I've now stitched a bunch of these Automatic Sports Co. threads together to make them easier to navigate.

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bryans fan
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Re: Automatic Sports Company games

Postby bryans fan » Thu May 19, 2016 3:45 pm

By coincidence I recently obtained this photo.
brighton013ORIGINAL-PICTURE-LIFESIZE-AND-COLOUR.jpg


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