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Re: Dog / Horse / Motorcycle Races

Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 9:08 pm
by roger
to pennymachine.......your email address never received roger

Re: Dog / Horse / Motorcycle Races

Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 11:39 pm
by pennymachines
OK Roger - sorry about that. I've now sent it to you by Private Message.

Re: Dog / Horse / Motorcycle Races

Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 6:00 pm
by pennymachines
Roger - I just received the image via JP. I'll put it through Photoshop and print off a copy.
Thanks for going to the trouble. I really appreciate it.

Re: Dog / Horse / Motorcycle Races

Posted: Wed May 18, 2016 7:29 am
by gameswat
I was just re-reading this thread and something that the owner of the Greyhound machine being talked about never seemed to broach was: how could a circa 1900 Watling machine have an alloy payout cup and many other alloy castings? Alloy really didn't come into use by the coin-op makers until the mid 1920's or slightly later!?

I meant to say, "alloy didn't come anything but very rare use until the mid 20's". I once had a US made Sittman & Pitt trade stimulator dating 1893 with tiny alloy hubs inside but with every other casting in iron.

Re: Dog / Horse / Motorcycle Races

Posted: Wed May 18, 2016 7:38 am
by gameswat
I'll soon have one of this family of machines on my work bench to look over closely, as a local friend just purchased the Essex Horse Race example sold at the recent Morphy auction. On looking at the Braithwaite book I see there is a machine listed as "Flat Racer" 20's/27, the 27 version with improved mechanism and strengthened. Seems likely this is the machine and would cover all versions, Horse, Greyhound and Motorcycle.

Just realised this machine is the same exact example as shown in the black and white photo by mr PM at the beginning of this thread! From a Dec 1976 UK auction sale. Note the wood grain fingerprint.

Re: Dog / Horse / Motorcycle Races

Posted: Wed May 18, 2016 12:19 pm
by pennymachines
Interesting... "Flat Racer" seems to cover it, doesn't it? (Thread re-named accordingly).
So the cash door on this one was replaced. I did think it unlikely the manufacturer would have used a brass hooded drawer pull as a coin payout cup! Is it this sort of thing you will be remedying, or does the mechanism need work also?

Regarding the different mechanisms, as I said earlier, I know the metal-fronted "Racing Investor" was different from the ones I restored, but I don't think I have a picture of the innards. It still looks to me like the earliest version. The one you are taking on also looks earlier than the first one in this thread. So would you agree that the punched drum is Mk1 and the punched disc is the "improved, strengthened mechanism"?

Re: Essex Flat Racer identified

Posted: Wed May 18, 2016 2:50 pm
by gameswat
pennymachines wrote:So would you agree that the punched drum is Mk1 and the punched disc is the "improved, strengthened mechanism"?

I'd suggest you are correct PM as that was the way I was leaning about both mech styles. Appears to be a zig-zag of strings that connect to all the horses which I assume would be the major weak point of this design.
pennymachines wrote:Is it this sort of thing you will be remedying, or does the mechanism need work also?
The auction blurb stated it needs adjustment and oiling. And the cashbox door and payout cup to be replaced. It doesn't look like the Watling style cup will fit that small size door properly though? Which I'm kind of happy about as I've had two recasts made of those before and my foundry kept having issues with the plug so gave up in the end and had to cast with the chutes solid! A lot of machining and hand work to cut those out I can tell you. I have yet to see another Essex case that matches this very short cash door style.

My friend is almost as particular as I am about getting his machines back to as original as possible. But sadly for him doesn't have the time or skills to do the work. So I've dug him out of many machine holes he's fallen into!!

Re: Essex Flat Racer identified

Posted: Wed May 18, 2016 4:40 pm
by pennymachines
Well, I don't think that's such a hole he's fallen into. A nice machine and champion restorer to get it all sorted.
I also had trouble trying to recast one of those cups. The caster kept my original for over 10 years while considering how to mould the undercut, then it went missing. Fortunately it emerged again when the business closed and everything was cleared out.

Re: Essex Flat Racer identified

Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 8:17 pm
by gameswat
OK PM, finally found time to start on this rare circa 1905 Watling Derby machine.......little joke for our old mate Roger. :lol: I mean Essex Flat Horse Racer of course! So far there isn't a number punched into anything, there are lots of hand made parts and small alterations, plus I'm fairly sure the cabinet has been recycled in some way. Which all lead me to believe this is most likely a prototype for the machine. The cabinet may just have been recycled from an earlier prototype of the same or similar game of course. I've worked on a handful of Essex games over the years and they were all finished to a much higher standard than this one. I'm not thrilled with the mech design as a lot of weak points and currently not working due to numerous failures and a terrible "restoration" in the last 20 years, the poor work of an amatuer owner I'll bet. So it doesn't surprise me at all that Essex came up with the much improved and simplified design as seen on all the other surviving machines. Days of fun ahead for me with much pulling of hair I'm sure. :dammit: !!SUICIDAL!! '!'

Re: Essex Flat Racer identified

Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 9:16 pm
by bryans fan
Gameswat wrote: Thu Jun 22, 2017 8:17 pmDays of fun ahead for me with much pulling of hair I'm sure.
Well, judging by your previous restorations, you are the man for the job! I look forward to following your progress. !!THUMBSX2!! !THUMBS!

Re: Essex Flat Racer identified

Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 4:03 pm
by gameswat
Yet further proof that these machines were of original British manufacture and not US Watling. Photo showing the two size of bolts used throughout this early style mech I'm currently working on, 1/8" & 3/16" British Standard Whitworth threads.

Re: Essex Flat Racer identified

Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 4:07 pm
by treefrog
Showing my complete ignorance, what are those two die type items, are they for threading screws !PUZZLED!

Re: Essex Flat Racer identified

Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 5:04 pm
by gameswat
treefrog wrote: Showing my complete ignorance, what are those two die type items, are they for threading screws !PUZZLED!
How on earth have you worked on machines this long Tree without owning some of these?! Yes, these are dies to cut the outer thread of a bolt, while the matching tap cuts the inner thread for the nut.

Re: Essex Flat Racer identified

Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 6:50 pm
by badpenny
1/8" 40 Whitworth and 3/16" 24 Whitworth

I keep imperial and metric

Re: Essex Flat Racer identified

Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 10:21 am
by treefrog
Funnily I have had my finger on the buy button for some time as wanted one of these kits and have a few jobs needing tapping....I guess I have avoided up until now

Re: Essex Flat Racer identified

Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 11:31 am
by badpenny
If you didn't do this in metalwork at school.
The only advice I'd give is ......
You can assure you have identified the correct size and thread by checking either the tap or the die against the corresponding bolt or threaded 'ole you've already got.
Ensure you've got the cutting tool vertical or you'll go wonky as you cut down. Wonky bolts don't go into straight 'oles nor do wonky 'oles accept straight bolts.
Apply machine oil regularly to the cutter and every half turn rotate backwards until you hear or feel the swarf cut off. You're cutting a thread not making springs and swarf still attached will damage the thread above as soon as the cutters following foul the swarf with the thread you just cut.

Others may have different views/advice, good luck and enjoy.
It's very satisfying ..... errr ... well .... I think so. !!HIDING!!

Re: Essex Flat Racer identified

Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 7:08 pm
by jailtime10
You may have forgotten that "old mate roger" as referenced by GAMESWAT 6/22/17, was banished to SIBERIA by 3 misinformed CLUB MEMBERS........I suggest they read ROGER'S post on 4/7/12 (Discoveries) so as to get their noses back from "out of joint".
In retribution, ROGER, surely, will be laughing , as GAMESWAT tries to get his "Rube Goldberg" prototype RACER into working order....As far as I know, there are only 4 known REAL PRODUCTION MODELS" of the RACER..."Watling" Yours truly, Mr. Putin

Re: Essex Flat Racer identified

Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 8:22 pm
by pennymachines
Hi and welcome back Roger,
Thanks for taking time out to post. We didn't convince you - fair enough. I don't think our noses are out of joint. It was a long time ago after all and I think we convinced ourselves at least. Not that I have any particular dog in this race. It's just interesting to deduce as much as we can about the origins of our machines. I hope your nose isn't out of joint and please don't feel banished.

Re: Essex Flat Racer identified

Posted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 12:01 am
by jailtime10
Hi Mr. P..........Don't ever put yourself in a class with the 3 misinformed CLUB MEMBERS....You were smart enough to recognize that all of my posts were designed to instigate a lively discussion on the DOG RACE....There is no question that my machine had its origin in the U.K................I did ruffle a few feathers among the experts in the coin-op world.........however these "gentlemen" should have realized the "PUT ON" after reading my post on 4/7/12 regards, MR. PUTIN

Re: Essex Flat Racer identified

Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 5:50 pm
by jailtime10
ESSEX AUTO MANUFACTURING CO. LTD..............In a more serious mode...has anyone ever researched the history of this company to see how an auto company evolved into making WATLING(see note **) slot machines.
*** NOW THIS IS WHAT IS REFERRED TO AS A "PUT-ON"