The Soccer by Jentzsch and Meerz

john t peterson · Post by **john t peterson** » Sat Sep 12, 2015 8:05 pm

Now…what did I do?

Help! I'm talking and I can't shut up!!

J Peterson
Guilty until proven innocent in USA

pennymachines · Post by **pennymachines** » Sun Sep 13, 2015 1:09 pm

Gameswat wrote:Well, I figured somebody would have come up with more info on this thing?

I think the trouble is your J&M is a really rare bird and maybe nobody here has one.

Wood carving now - are there no limits to your talents?

I didn't realize Freddie's book was finally in print. Where did you get your copy?

gameswat · Post by **gameswat** » Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:00 pm

pennymachines wrote:Wood carving now - are there no limits to your talents?

PM, since I rarely have any money and like nice stuff I'm forced to pretty much do everything myself!

Not that I'm complaining as the figuring and doing is my fave part.

Forced creativity for want of a better name.

pennymachines wrote: I didn't realize Freddie's book was finally in print. Where did you get your copy?

A US friend mentioned he'd gotten an early copy so talked with a local buddy and he ordered two from the states as was the cheapest way to get them here for us. Lots of dating mistakes in the text for pre 20's era but some good stories he tells of his personal memories. But as I guessed a lot of adverts I've never seen before, such as the Soccer shown above, so worth adding to my library. Was actually a gift from my buddy which was cool.

pennymachines · Post by **pennymachines** » Sun Sep 13, 2015 10:49 pm

EH next Sunday.
Uncanny.

Coincidence or cunning plan?

Described as "Ultra Rare" which, I guess, is near the mark for once. Sadly, no pediment.

made by Jentzsch and Meerz in the 1920s. In super original condition and working on old penny play. Lithographed tinplate footballers. The 'Pennies Only' badge is marked Samson of London, with also a Ruffler & Walker badge on the side of the cabinet - both well known suppliers of machines. Similar machine (but heavily modified for cigarette payout) in Carter's book page 67, and another example with different arrangement for coin entry and token payout shown in Baudot's book on page 35.

jingle · Post by **jingle** » Mon Sep 14, 2015 7:23 am

I can hear the tears hitting the floor from here Rory

gameswat · Post by **gameswat** » Mon Sep 14, 2015 8:13 am

I'm more than happy Jingle, shows how original mine really is!

jingle · Post by **jingle** » Mon Sep 14, 2015 10:05 am

I had the one with the cig vendor on you put on with the dodgy top,
It's was a carters machine,it's in the book,
It looked like it was made up
And not original,
I can't remember were I sold it tho

pennymachines · Post by **pennymachines** » Mon Sep 21, 2015 1:45 pm

Some pictures of the J&M Soccer game:

gameswat · Post by **gameswat** » Mon Sep 21, 2015 5:20 pm

Thank PM, mech was almost untouched, but the figures looked rough up close, especially the kicker.

jingle · Post by **jingle** » Mon Sep 21, 2015 6:48 pm

See that were talking about soccer machines
Am still looking to get on with my winaway by brenner
Looking again to see if anyone had thee other that's ment to be around or anyone
Has a spare brenner cabinet for sale probably a ball past thee arrow one will do
It's looking a lot worse sine I last peeped at it about 5 years ago

gameswat · Post by **gameswat** » Tue Sep 22, 2015 2:56 am

Nice, have never seen the mech for this Brenner Soccer before and quite complex. A lot of work to restore but well worth the effort for such a rare and interesting machine.

arrgee · Post by **arrgee** » Tue Sep 22, 2015 2:01 pm

jingle wrote:It's looking a lot worse sine I last peeped at it about 5 years ago

...................send it to Perth Jingle

john t peterson · Post by **john t peterson** » Tue Sep 22, 2015 6:03 pm

sweetmeats · Post by **sweetmeats** » Sat Sep 26, 2015 2:42 pm

The soccer machine recently sold in the EH auction was last sold at Christies South Kensington "lost street museum" sale October 1997 it sold with premium for £1870 so not so dear 18 years later . I also have a soccer machine, there are two small screw holes in the top suggesting it may once have had a top marque . I also have rare football wall machine [ see picture] it must one of the hardest games to win your coin back on in all the years I have owned I have NEVER won on it! It was patented in 1915 No 23,851 by G. Baker of Sheffield ,Automatic machine maker. Photos to follow.

treefrog · Post by **treefrog** » Sat Sep 26, 2015 5:46 pm

If you look closely at the Christies machine, the woodgrain, base style and marks you will see they are different machines.....Your other football machine is certainly unusual, the spandrels almost look french in style

gameswat · Post by **gameswat** » Sun Sep 27, 2015 3:28 am

Yes, just two screw holes in the roof of my Soccer, no peg holes like the Clowns. Is the Soccer shown yours Sweatmeats?

sweetmeats · Post by **sweetmeats** » Sun Sep 27, 2015 1:40 pm

To follow up on posts from treefrog and gameswot, the picture posted is my machine and not the one from the Christies sale of 1997 which I now add a picture from the cat. It was in black and white. I was at the sale and spoke to the buyer after who bought it as he was a football fan rather than a slot collector and said that he would have it polished and the missing plate around the trigger made. I have not seen him or the machine since, but feel sure it is the same machine. If not, it is so similar as to support my comments on price. Gameswat, your machine, mine and the one in Lemaitre's book all seem to be identical. I copied the instructions from the Lemaitre book which I have added since the picture was taken. I would be interested to know of any other similar machines in other collections.

aristomatic · Post by **aristomatic** » Sun Sep 27, 2015 2:43 pm

I think even I would lay a few quid that they are indeed the same cabinet.

gameswat · Post by **gameswat** » Sat Oct 03, 2015 9:44 am

A local friend just came through with all the info I needed to finish up my repro marquee! His timing was impeccable to say the least as I was just hours away from getting back onto it as the last part to finish the machine off. Here's the eBay link to this German version Allwin Reserve - named Climax for the home market: http://www.ebay.de/itm/altes-kugelschle ... 7675.l2557

Really was invaluable to find these clear multi-angle photos help me fill in the detail blanks. Only difference with this example is the pointy middle section instead of rounded as shown in the adverts I'd found. And shows a bracket on the rear. Though for this to match up with the holes in my cabinet roof it will mean moving the marquee forward 3/4", but it should sit back. According to the hole positions they are directly under where the marquee should sit. Looking side on the marquee will almost always line up with the front door wood. Before seeing these photos I had assumed they'd drilled holes down through the marquee and ran long screws. But for other original marquees I've had they always choose to screw through the thinnest section and use the shortest screws possible. Will need to think about this and decide which way to go? I try to always use the original screw or bolts holes when replacing anything.

gameswat · Post by **gameswat** » Thu Oct 08, 2015 3:41 am

Finally finished - phew. Stained and repainted the damn marquee at least 5 times until I could reasonably match the milky looking lacquer of the cabinet. I don't wear a watch but I'm guessing easily 25 hours into just the marquee alone, with research, making a paper pattern, selecting wood, about 10 hours of carving, staining and a lot of paint experimentation!

One of the most difficult colour/paint matching jobs to date. But happy I persevered. The operator at some point painted red stain or paint into the fluting beside the door and around all the edges of the case which has worn away to some extent. That's why I added some red staining to the centre oval of my repro marquee and to a few other spots. There was a lot of staining then rubbing back over and over again to try and replicate the patina and randomness of age.

The mech cleaned up well. The payout cup was crushed and I had to unsolder it from the frame and carefully panel beat it back into shape which was about 4 hours. I managed to find a great spray can product called Dupli-Color Metalcast (Yellow Anodised #MC202) to replicate the gold lacquer used on many of the mech castings and brass sheet parts. Pretty much every J&M machines uses this gold lacquer, not on everything, some of the parts were just clear coated or not at all. Will also post this to resources. Careful cleaning really spruced up the cloth backing.

As for my dilemma about fixing the marquee......looking at the German eBay Climax I noticed the wood was thinner than I'd originally guessed, so that gave me a little more room to play once the bracket was added to the back. I managed to fit the marquee using both original lid screw holes and it sits just slightly back from the edge of the lid. I'm guessing that when these machines were shipped over from Germany they didn't have the maquee fitted yet to save space and possible damage. These were most probably left to the importer to drill and attach and whoever did this one sat it slightly forward than normally seen. Really doesn't appear out of place as I'd first imagined it would.