FORUM

Could anyone give me a bit of info about these machines as I've mislaid my copy of Arcades & Slot Machines! I'm mainly an allwin man myself but couldn't resist these two beauties purchased this morning at Kempton antiques fair. The seller was the grandson of the owner of an arcade on Brighton Pier from around 1915 to 1925 or thereabouts and these were found in his cellar many years ago. Apparently there were several more but they literally disintegrated when moved! He is sorting out some family history relating to the arcade for me, but in the meantime, actually how old ARE these machines? One was made by Moody, Wraith and Gurr? and faintly reads Pickwick on topflash. The other is a shield catcher but has no makers name. Oh, yes....and both need extensive renovation...just like all my other buys!!

Two very nice machines, Terry. The one on the left is known as a Bijou Pickwick (not sure if I have the right spelling) and the Shield catcher on the right appears to be a very similar machine - almost certainly by the same maker, and both British. You mention Moody, Wraith & Gurr - that's probably Pessers, Moody, Wraith & Gurr. If so, there could be the initials PMW&G stamped on the sides and top. Both machines appear to have a simple coin return, which was common with early British machines - their German counterparts more commonly having a check or token payout.
I'd be really interested to hear more about the Brighton connection, so please keep us informed with any info. you receive.
By the way - which Brighton pier, Palace or West?

Jerry

Jerry, thanks for the info! I've had to order another book from Dave as I've turned the house upside down looking for mine! The wife has probably thrown it into the recycling bin with her old magazines!! As for the Brighton connection I'll have to wait until my contacts come up with their history before I can tell you which pier. They are also from Brighton and have been antiques dealers for years although mainly dealing in kitchenalia. Apparently they have newspaper clippings of a story when their grandfather was arrested for operating machines illegally! At first I thought they were giving me the usual fancified stories that dealers make up but as it went on it all seemed quite kosher! I'm going to collect some copies of the clippings etc. when I go to Kempton next and I'll be fascinated to find out more of the machines history. The grandson had them in his loft for years with the intention of restoring them but he realised it was never going to happen so he brought them along with the egg racks and sweet jars to see if they sold and I just happened by. Funnily enough, I was on my way to my lock-up in Walton to pick up a Bell Fruit Cascade that I was hoping to sell to someone and I thought I'd pop into the fair on the offchance of finding something nice! Quite a surprise to find something so old, though! Are these really pre-1920?? They have woodworm damage to the pine bases and are a bit rusty inside but they have potential! Have you any idea of values for such machines as they weren't THAT cheap??!

Keep up the good work with the mag and auctions!!

Terry.

Although losing your Carter's book is careless in the extreme, it probably would not have yielded any info. in this case (I can't say for sure, as I can't find mine either)! I forgot to mention age in my previous post, but I think pre WWI is a fairly safe bet, although I shouldn't be too surprised if this type of machine made it into the very early twenties. As for value, it seems to be an 'unwritten rule' not to talk prices in the forum, but surfice to say, in recent years, these older machines seem not to attract the prices they ought. I don't know why, but they just don't seem to command the interest they deserve. How on earth can you put these wonderful machines in the same league as an Olly Whales allwin?
Having said that, I'd gladly take either one off your hands for fifty quid, in order to operate it at Brighton. I'm sure you'd agree, it would be in a really good cause - the machine would be 'going home' so to speak!
Oh, OK then - Sixty quid.

Jerry, interest is probably limited on this type of machine because people simply don't remember them! I think we all started collecting by purchasing a machine we had fond memories of playing as children. How long will it be before everyone is looking at an allwin and wondering what the hell it is?!....I'd better sell everything now!!!

I'll pass on your "kind" offer for the machines at the moment but don't be surprised to see them up for sale when I finally realise that I'm out of my depth with them and I'm offloading them at a fraction of what I paid...I'm good at that!! They are definitely museum pieces, though. They are the oldest machines I've had by far!

Terry, I think your absolutely right about collecting those machines we had fond memories of playing as children and I believe that we will not see our machines full potential value (money and intrinsic) until they become real antiques, say 50 - 60 years time, by which time quite a lot of us will not be around and dare I say it, neither will be many of the machines !!

Having said that I think your catchers are absolutely fantastic. Notwithstanding Jerry's offer I will give you and extra fiver, plus a dozen fresh eggs and a geranium plant, what could be better than that.

Terry, Those are definitely two terrific machines. I remember seeing the first one some time ago on the internet and copying it. Below is a photo of that game. It's identical to yours. I'm sure the photo is from a past Ebay sale in Great Britain but, alas, the details of the sale are long lost. Regarding the offers for the games, I'd seriously consider the one with the eggs. Regards, John Peterson, USA.

Hi again, John! Yes, the offers have been staggering and as I'm very fond of a bit of omlette, I really am beginning to waver. A bar of chocolate or a four pack of Magners cider should just about clinch the deal!

Thanks for your picture. I saw it and immediately thought that the artwork looked familiar. I just had a shuffle through my meagre selection of copies and found the exact set required to replace the handmade scrollwork! Now all I need to do is replace the rotten wood, clean off a ton of rust and hope that all the parts are there to make it work...but I do have the artwork...it's a start I suppose!!

Topic moved & merged - Site Admin.

Does anyone have any info about these Handan-Ni machines, like photos of the mechanism etc.?
Thanks, Bonanza Gipsy

Hello,

As no one has responded already, those machines look like they have been heavily restored and maybe not original cases and top marque. Below is one that sold at the elephant in 2018 for £580 and no manufacturer was mentioned, but in Arcadia book by Jean-Claude Beudof there is a very pretty one with ornate scrolls described as a Bijou Pickwick by Pessers Moody and Gurr circa 1914.

The top marque on these machines seems to be right shape but probably would not have been carved.

Sorry not got picture of insides

Bonanza gipsy (who has been a lurker on the site since 2006!) phoned me this morning about these games. He has owned them for many years, and rescued them from a leaky shed. All that was left was the fronts so, as treefrog surmised, the carved tops aren't original. Most of the mechanisms were gone, but the original graphics were preserved (copied and reprinted on the games). He says the original Handan-Ni labels also survived (hence the attribution). I suggested the mechanism may be very similar to other Handan-Ni's. The catcher above looks to be the same game.

Following TF's lead on this (namely, that it's by Pessers, Moody Wraith & Gurr), I've found the 1915 patent for the game, which shows the mechanism. Evidently, some changes were made to the production design. I've added it to Archive/Patents: GB191510036

Although Handan-Ni were manufacturers and distributors to the trade, there are no patents listed under their name. PMW&G Ltd were at 148-150 Curtain Road, London, less than a mile from Handan-Ni Ltd's 121 Middlesex Street base.

There are a bunch of other patents by Pessers & co. which I will also add.

You can see by the plaque that it was made by a company formerly trading as Handan-Ni. That might account for not finding it. Also it has quite a bit of mechanism in it...

MANUFACTURED BY
London Automatic Machine Co. Ltd.
FORMERLY TRADING AS
HANDAN-NI LIMITED
12, 14 & 16 WESTMORELAND PLACE
CITY ROAD, LONDON, N.1.

Of course the name alluded to the 'hand and eye' coordination (i.e. skill) required to play their games. Paul Braithwaite tells us they changed it to London Automatic Machine Co. Ltd. in 1919, due to difficulties in making it understood over the telephone. That gives us the earliest date your game could have been made. The correct spelling of the original name continues to confuse in the internet age.

I haven't found any patents applied for by the London Automatic Machine Co. I'm guessing they were manufacturing for, or agents of, Pessers, Moody, Wraith & Gurr.
PMW&G's 1917 French patent for Bijou Pickwick: FR481713

pennymachines wrote: ↑Mon Feb 22, 2021 1:51 pm ....... the name alluded to the 'hand and eye' coordination (i.e. skill) required to play their games .....

Well Strewth and 'Blige me sideways! I did not know that.

The two machines which, as you say, are over restored, belong to me, but if you had seen them when I came across them, I doubt if you would have given them a second look. Sides, top and bottom rotted, basically just the front doors and not much else. They were so bad that my wife banned them from anywhere near the house. So I restored them as I thought they would probably have been, with no reference to go by. I don't think I got it far wrong. The small plaque on the play field states The London Automatic Machine Co, Formally trading as Handan-Ni, but can't find much about them. The machines play on 1/2p. If you would like to talk more about machines I would be happy speak with you. You can call me on 07513843063 and ask for Graham.

bonanza gipsy wrote: ↑Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:00 pm The small plaque on the play field states The London Automatic Machine Co, Formally trading as Handan-Ni, but can't find much about them.

Again, from Paul Braithwaite:

The London Automatic Machine Co. Ltd... came into being in early 1919, at 12 Middlesex St., Bishopsgate, E1. By autumn of that year it had occupied 12, 14 &16 Westmoreland Place, N1. In late Spring 1921 the "Handan-Ni" trademark, manufacturing rights, plant and premises were taken over by Jofeh & Stapleton. The London Automatic Machine Co. remained in business as hirers of machines and dealers. In 1926 their premises and contents at 169 Cleethorpes Rd., Grimsby (an arcade) were for sale. In 1927 they were once more "Manufacturer, patentees and suppliers" of all kinds of automatics. In 1929 they were one of a number in the industry controlled and owned by Associated Automatic Machine Corporation. Last advert 1930.

John Jofeh was co-patentee with HJG Pessers and FE Moody on a coin acceptor, further attesting to ties between Handan-Ni/London Automatic Machine Co. and Pessers, Moody, Wraith & Gurr.

I doubt the machines play on ½p.
The very thought makes me shiver!

Aha - just about to say many machines of this age played on 1/2d ....... but read your post again!