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geofflove
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Gottlieb Roto Pool 1958

Postby geofflove » Wed Aug 05, 2020 8:49 pm

Don’t seem to be many pinballs appearing on here.... maybe there’s a reason!

Anyway, I picked this one up last week. Got to say I thought I’d been a bit of an idiot when I got it home and it took up all the remaining space in the workshop. Plugged it in and it appeared to work for a minute, then it didn’t. I know very little about pinballs but am learning fast. They are pretty daunting inside.

The problem was it was stuck in a contact reset loop and so the machine wouldn’t play. Anyway, I’m pleased and slightly amazed to say it’s now working. Slightly unbelievably, it’s non working was all down to a relay spring being too strong for the relay to overcome it and latch. A simple stretch and it’s all fixed. Finding it took a while though...!

Now I know it actually works its now worth me cutting the worm rotted bits of the cabinet out, replacing the worm eaten rails, replacing the rubbers (40+ of them) and giving it a polish.

How exciting!
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moonriver
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Re: Gottlieb Roto Pool 1958

Postby moonriver » Wed Aug 05, 2020 9:18 pm

Nice and colourful.

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badpenny
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Re: Gottlieb Roto Pool 1958

Postby badpenny » Wed Aug 05, 2020 10:46 pm

A pinball stuck in its reset cycle (reels constantly rotating backwards) should be switched off immediately. The motor that spins the carousel of leaf switches is not constantly rated and can easily burn out in a minute or two.

The cause of this stuck cycle is dirty contacts on the score reels.
On reset once the reels are set at zero a line of contacts match up and the reels stop spinning when zero shows across the front and the game start relay locks. That'll be the one you stretched the spring on.
The dirty contacts will have caused either a dry contact or voltage drop to the coil in the start relay stopping it from overcoming the spring.
Use contact cleaner and/or enacting it should burn the contacts clean, but may cause arcing which could burn the contacts.

BP

geofflove
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Re: Gottlieb Roto Pool 1958

Postby geofflove » Thu Aug 06, 2020 7:28 am

That’s what I first thought as well BP. I traced and check these contacts and they were fine. I then checked the relay was receiving the full 25v, which it was. As a double check, I took the relay out and connected it direct to the 25v supply and still the same - it couldn’t quite actuate. That’s when I started playing with the spring. The spring was quite shiny compared to the rest so I wonder if it had been replaced at some point with the wrong item.

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coppinpr
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Re: Gottlieb Roto Pool 1958

Postby coppinpr » Thu Aug 06, 2020 8:42 am

Well spotted on the spring, I would have suspected low power from the transformer but you say it's at full power? These machines were made to last and the transformers on many (can't say with this one) were made with "high" "med" and "low" taps and as the transformer aged the output could be changed to the next tap up to boost the transformer back to full power, but would seem this is not needed here (yet :lol: ).

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slotalot
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Re: Gottlieb Roto Pool 1958

Postby slotalot » Thu Aug 06, 2020 11:09 am

coppinpr wrote:
Thu Aug 06, 2020 8:42 am
transformers on many (can't say with this one) were made with "high" "med" and "low" taps and as the transformer aged the output could be changed to the next tap up to boost the transformer back to full power
Just to clarify and avoid any costly errors, only adjust the tappings on the mains "primary" side of the transformer. If you mess with the output "secondary" side you could end up sending 25 volts (or more) where only 6 volts is needed. :oops:

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atticbrowser
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Re: Gottlieb Roto Pool 1958

Postby atticbrowser » Thu Aug 06, 2020 12:35 pm

That’s a lovely wood rail machine you have there and congrats on solving the start up problem. Do you know anything about where it has been for the past 60 years?

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special when lit
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Re: Gottlieb Roto Pool 1958

Postby special when lit » Thu Aug 06, 2020 1:21 pm

geofflove wrote:
Wed Aug 05, 2020 8:49 pm
Got to say I thought I’d been a bit of an idiot when I got it home and it took up all the remaining space in the workshop.
That's exactly why I'm selling off all mine!
Re the woodworm, there's various products you can buy that are like a resin. you put it over the affected area, & it soaks in & makes the wood solid, that might be better than cutting out & replacing, because you won't lose the original artwork.
It's what I plan to use on my World Fair.

geofflove
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Re: Gottlieb Roto Pool 1958

Postby geofflove » Thu Aug 06, 2020 11:29 pm

So firstly to answer a few points raised....

I know nothing of the history of this machine. I got it from a family of a man who had sadly passed away and back in the day used to repair them. He has a couple in a garage and this was one of them along with a jukebox and an allwin.

Didn’t know about the taps on the transformer. This is on ‘normal’ and at about 25.5v so seems ok.

However, I spoke too soon and now have a new problem which has appeared....

So I had this machine working perfectly for a while. And now it's not again!
I was working to repair the front corner of the case and after finishing thought I'd check the machine and this happened...
If 4 or less balls are in the machine pressing replay correctly resets the scores, the scores motor stops and the playfield becomes active (but the balls don't release - maybe they shouldn't with only 4 in the machine?)
As soon as the 5th ball is added to the rack it pressing reply doesn't reset the scores properly. It will only move the 10000 score lights on a few steps (eg 30000 to 70000) and the score motor keeps running. Press replay again and it will move the 10000 on a few more steps until after a couple of pushes we get back to 0 and the score motor stops. However, the balls do not release and the play field is not active.
I can't see how my work has caused this problem as I've not knowing touched anything mechanical. I did have to remake 2 wire connections near the coin box as they were joined on the park of the case I was working on. One was a junction of a blue wire to a green wire from the coin mech and the other joined two brown wires from the replay button. However I tried disconnecting them in case I'd got something wrong and nothing worked. Looking at the schematic it's on the wrong side of the transformer to affect this I think. I did have to cut some rotten wood from the corner of the case - maybe the power tool vibration affected something?

Anyone know enough to help or know someone who does? I have a schematic if it helps but I can’t get to the bottom of this one.


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