Top Gun Marshall

Britain's only vintage coin-op magazine.
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stoxman22
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Top Gun Marshall

Post by stoxman22 »

I have just read the article in MMM from Robert about the Marshall. I remember this machine so well. I spent a lot of time in Mablethorpe, we had a caravan there in my youth as my mum is from Skeggy and she wanted to have a base near her Sisters. It is such a pity that machine didn't end up with a collector it was very addictive and I bet not many were made.
Another machine in the same arcade was a Second World War aircraft shooter. You looked through a sight and used a joystick type of handle to shoot at planes on a film of a dog fight. I ask the owner recently about that machine and he had skipped that as well. He did tell me the film was an original WW2 training film. I wonder if Robert can throw any light on this classic?
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Re: Top Gun Marshall

Post by rippyspennyarcade »

Hi Stoxman, Glad you enjoyed my article in MMM. Also pleased that you DO remember seeing the Top Gun Marshall in working order!!! That arcade was the best in town in the 1960s and had nearly EVERYTHING that was available. To be honest, I had forgotten about the Second World War dogfight machine however your comment has triggered something, and YES, I DO remember the machine that you mention. Think I even had a play on it at sometime. Sadly, NOTHING is left of either machine - only the MEMORIES!! ROB.
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gameswat
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Re: Top Gun Marshall

Post by gameswat »

Did the WW2 shooting machine you're thinking of use stereoscope film? I have a large machine that houses a US Navy Flight/fight simulator which was converted after the war for arcade use. The film is 35mm stereo and projected onto the back of twin eyepieces. A counter on the top keeps crack of all hits. Luckily it came with a spare roll of film and the US Navy manaul, which is like a small phonebook!!! Still have yet to restore this one, should be quite an accomplishment to get it working properly again.
stoxman22
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Re: Top Gun Marshall

Post by stoxman22 »

You might well have a similar machine. I remember that there were two lenses inside a sort of canopy that you rested your forehead against. I dont remember it being 3D though. Thinking back the joystick seemed to be two vertical handles on a central piece, a bit like a stearing wheel without the top and bottom bits and to fire you had a lever in the middle you operated with your thumb. I now recall there was a counter above your head. How did this thing work. The planes on the film went all over the place.
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Re: Top Gun Marshall

Post by rippyspennyarcade »

Had a word with a chap who worked in the arcade for 25 years, and he suggests that the machine you talk about Stoxman, could have been called AIR GUNNER. ROB.
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gameswat
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Re: Top Gun Marshall

Post by gameswat »

Found a couple of old pics of my Gunnery Trainer or "Panoramic Gunnery Trainer" as the US Navy called it. Currently wedged in my workshop and hard to photograph without moving a lot of stuff. The manual is 116 pages long! and has to be the best instructions I've ever seen for a coin-op machine. Label on the front says it was made by Philip Shefras Ltd, and runs on a large 3D.

The forward in the US Navy manual says: "This device has been developed for use in training aerial gunners in turret manipulation and sighting under conditions which are as realistic as possible.
The carefully prepared films show realistic attack runs by various types of enemy aircraft.
The horizontal and vertical positions of the point of aim have been calculated for each individual picture or frame using the latest available data on exterior ballistics.
The Panoramic Gunnery trainer, Mark 1, will prove to be an invaluable aid in training gunners and keeping a day by day record of the gunners' progress provided that the device is always properly maintained and adjusted.
The device is a somewhat (HA) complex and delicate instrument and should always be maintained by an operator who is thoroughly familiar (me) with the device itself and the contents of the manual."

The film is 35mm B&W shot in stereo, with a sound track, and with unseen black stripe markers beside every image, one horizontal on the left frame, one vertical on the right. The film is on an endless loop with a small notch to tell the projector to stop after each loop. Maybe 75 ft of film?? It's projected onto the back of the two eyepieces. The control handles on the cabinet front move a cross hair that is projected onto the back of the eyepieces so you know where you're aiming. There are also two photoelectric cells that move in unison with the cross-hair, one for vertical and one for horizontal. When the cross-hair is not aimed correctly light enters the two photo cells and no hits are made. But once you do aim at just the right spot both black stripes on the film stop any light hitting the two photo cells, and a hit is made.
Very cool machine that has to be a rarity since they could only make as many as the recycled trainers would allow. Graphics on the cabinet are all hand painted by a sign writer. My mech has been factory made for 220volt, while the manual only talks about 115volt operation and parts.
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aerial gunnery mech_4_3_1.jpg
gunnery cabinet_3_1_1.JPG
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gameswat
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Re: Top Gun Marshall

Post by gameswat »

Oops, forgot to mention, the name on the top of the machine is "Aerial Gunnery" so the arcade chap was pretty damn close!
stoxman22
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Re: Top Gun Marshall

Post by stoxman22 »

That is the very machine. There were three (I think) in a line in Mablethorpe. I spent a fortune on these machines, I couldn't get enough. I am sure it was this machine that put me on the engineering career path. I must have been about 10 years old but tried so hard to work out how you could register a hit shooting at a piece of film. You MUST get this going, I bet it is one of a kind now.
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Re: Top Gun Marshall

Post by rippyspennyarcade »

Hi Stoxman, If you look on this picture (which also appeared in April MMM), you can CLEARLY see the AERIAL GUNNER in the arcade that you knew (Marine Pastimes). If you CLICK on the picture itself and scroll right and left.... this brings Aerial Gunner up a lot closer. Hope that you enjoy actually seeing a photo of this machine again, and the happy memories that you must have had!! ROB.
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Aerial Gunner.jpg
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JC
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Re: Top Gun Marshall

Post by JC »

Here are the pictures of Top Gun Marshall and its successor Gunslinger, as published in the magazine.
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Top Gun Marshall
Top Gun Marshall
Gunslinger
Gunslinger
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slotalot
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Re: Top Gun Marshall

Post by slotalot »

I have just been sorting through our old photo albums and I have just found this!!!! it was taken by me at Mablethorpe over 25 years ago :oops: it shows that very gunslinger arcade machine and if you look in the back corner of the room you can see a lighthouse grip machine as well :D the two kids in the photo are my little boys...now over 30 years old :o .....I was old when I got up this morning but now I feel a lot older, how the time passes :tarah:
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gun slinger.jpg
rippyspennyarcade
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Re: Top Gun Marshall

Post by rippyspennyarcade »

In this thread, the AIR GUNNER machine at Mablethorpe is mentioned. Tonight, an ex-worker at the arcade found a small 35mm strip of actual film from that machine. Don't know if it's of any interest, but I will post a picture.
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Air Gunner - original 35mm film strip from machine.jpg
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gameswat
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Re: Top Gun Marshall

Post by gameswat »

How strange, this piece of film isn't in stereo??? The machine can't have worked properly with only a mono image as you wouldn't have seen the depth of the stereo film. I'll scan a piece later to show the difference.
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gameswat
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Re: Top Gun Marshall

Post by gameswat »

This is from the manual and shows the stereo imagery that was used in the machine. The film from Mablethrope appears to have been scanned upside down as the vertical index position (black notch) is shown on the left of the image, when it should be on the far right side of the right hand image. And since there is no left hand image at all there is no way for the machine to find the horizontal position of the target. And no 3 dimensional effect because of that. Or any sound attached to the Mablethorpe film. This must have been a copy of the original film but why only one image??
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gunnery trainer film.jpg
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Re: Top Gun Marshall

Post by rippyspennyarcade »

My friend, who has the original film, and worked in the Mablethorpe amusement arcade for 25 years, has read gameswat's latest and here is HIS reply:
Well if it was scanned upside down, the bomber involved would have the tail at the top of the picture, or did everyone fly upside down to confuse the enemy? Perhaps he meant the image should have been rotated. As for the soundtrack, well either thousands of punters must have heard the attendants of that time inside the machine going brr, brr, brr, and rat-a-tat-tat through a cocoa tin!! As the machine did in fact work ('cos you could hear it). So irrespective of what the manual or the technical diagrams indicate, I won't go along with the point that they didn't work, as me and thousands of others know they did. If the manual was for the American version, perhaps it's a bit like today, defence cuts and all that, couldn't afford stereo or gun noises (had to use somebody inside with a cocoa tin).
Anyway, I've turned the picture 'round.
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Air Gunner - original 35mm film strip from machine.jpg
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gameswat
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Re: Top Gun Marshall

Post by gameswat »

Yes, I meant upside-down, though I thought it made sense by what else I said about the image.

The sound of the machine guns wasn't supplied by the film, obviously that only sounded when pressing the fire button - the film supplied the sound of the airplanes in dog fight.

My guess is, the Mablethorpe machine this film strip came from was made in the UK by Shefras expressly for coin-op operation and as such was a simplified version that was much easier for them to manufacture than trying to copy the US Navy 3 Dimensional original. There can't have been many of the surplus Navy machines available for them to revamp for coin-op after the war, so they decided to make their own.

Oh, and I didn't say the Mablethorpe film machine didn't work, I said it couldn't have worked as it was supposed to. Without the stereo view of depth it's impossible to know how far ahead you should shoot to meet the attacking plane, which is obviously why these Navy training machines were invented in the first place.
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Re: Top Gun Marshall

Post by rippyspennyarcade »

Hi gameswat, my friend has just informed me via email that you had replied to his earlier post. Things seem a lot clearer now, and he wishes to thank you for all your input on this machine. Believe it or not, I even played that same machine in Mablethorpe in the 1960s. We had a bank of 4 in one local amusement arcade. Happy days!!!
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