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Investigate 9/11!

Postby pennymachines » Tue Mar 20, 2007 3:35 am

Why is this topic in a forum about vintage slot machines?
Because it is of vital and urgent relevance to all (including slot machine collectors) who care anything for truth, democracy and the future.

If you don't have an open mind on this subject or feel it's just a matter of "American politics" and isn't going to impinge upon your life, you are free to ignore it and move on. If you object to this topic being here or just want to mock, rather than address its content, please do so via the Feedback forum.

Otherwise, please watch at least one of these movies. They introduce the subject from slightly different angles, some of the information overlaps and no doubt all contain things that can and should be challenged. Do your own research.

(Broadband required)

Press For Truth (1 hr 24 mins)
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The Elephant in the Room (92 mins)
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Rethinking 9/11: Why Truth and Reconciliation Are Better Strategies Than War (60 mins)
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Blueprint for Truth (2 hrs)
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9/11 False Flag (73 mins)
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Many more documentaries here: http://www.911docs.net
The videos give a quick introduction to some of the key issues. I would recommend these sites as a launchpad for further research:

Complete 9/11 Timeline

Patriots Question 9/11

Journal of 911 Studies

9-11 Review

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Former Italian President calls 9/11 inside job

Postby pennymachines » Fri Dec 07, 2007 3:30 pm

Former Italian President Francesco Cossiga is the latest "nutty conspiracy theorist" to admit 9/11 was an inside job. His remarks were published last week in the Corriere Della Sera one of Italy's most respected newspapers.

Roughly translated he said: "[Bin Laden supposedly confessed] to the Al-Qaeda September [attack] upon the two towers in New York [claiming to be] the author of the attack of the 11th, while all the [intelligence services] of America and Europe ... now know well that the disastrous attack was planned and realized from the American CIA and the Mossad with the aid of the Zionist world in order to put under accusation the Arabic Countries and in order to induce the western powers to take part ... in Iraq [and] Afghanistan."

After the attacks in 2001 he commented: "The mastermind of the attack must have been a sophisticated mind, provided with ample means not only to recruit fanatic kamikazes, but also highly specialized personnel. I add one thing: it could not be accomplished without infiltrations in the radar and flight security personnel."

Coming from a widely respected former head of state, Cossiga's assertion that the 9/11 attacks were an inside job and that this is common knowledge amongst global intelligence agencies won't be covered by the BBC (who're not normally reticent to report anything he has to say), nor any other British establishment media outlets because like other senior politicians who have spoken out, such as former British Minister of State for the Environment Michael Meacher and former German Secretary of State for the Federal Ministry of Defence Andreas von Bulow, plus the hundreds of other sober ex-government, military, air force professionals and architects, allied to hundreds more professors and intellectuals - he is much more difficult to sideline as a crackpot conspiracy theorist.

Cossiga may be the most senior establishment figure to go public on this but, like von Bullow, it is particularly within the context of his long involvement in matters of state security and intelligence (including the false-flag Gladio terrorist attacks upon civilians carried out by the Italian secret services from the 1960s to the 1980s) that his comments should be judged.

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Postby margamatix » Mon Dec 10, 2007 10:35 pm

FFS, please see sense and delete this embarrassment of a forum.

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Re: Investigate 9/11!

Postby pennymachines » Mon Feb 04, 2008 1:31 am

Top of page:
If you don't have an open mind on this subject or feel it's just a matter of "American politics" and isn't going to impinge upon your life, you are free to ignore it and move on. If you object to this topic being here or just want to mock, rather than address its content, please do so via the Feedback forum.
Hello margamatrix. In future I'll delete such posts from this forum but you can repost them in Feedback.

Last April you said: "he just won't listen. Goodbye everybody." I do listen, but I don't agree and I'm glad you decided not to leave.
It's clear from the title - this forum isn't about slot machines. As other members have said - if reading it upsets or annoys you, the simple solution is: don't return to it.

I think your real objection isn't that it's "off topic". Would you complain bitterly if I reserved a section of my own website to advertise a holiday cottage? You call it an "embarrassment" and I understand why you might feel that way. Conjuring up wild theories about the events of 9/11 would be to dishonour the relatives and friends of those who died.

However, if you took the trouble to watch Press For Truth you would know it was the relatives and friends of those who died who fought the Bush government every inch of the way so that there was a public investigation into the many questions surrounding 9/11. The government took the view that unique among the calamities that have befallen America from Pearl Harbor to the Columbia Space Shuttle disaster there was to be no national inquiry into ostensibly one of the greatest intelligence and defence failures in the country's history. Trading their tragic stories for media time in order to voice their dissatisfaction, the "Jersey Girls" successfully forced the Bush administration into setting up the The National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States (commonly referred to as the 9/11 or Kean Commission).

However, the investigation was set up entirely on the government's terms and was originally to be headed by Henry Kissinger until he was challenged by the Family Steering Committee over his obvious conflicts. He was replaced by Philip Zelikow whose equally egregious conflicts of interest were less public. New York Times journalist Philip Shenon's: The Commission: The Uncensored History of the 9/11 Investigation available from February 5th covers this in detail. The resulting whitewash is covered a little in Press For Truth and in more detail by David Ray Griffin's The 9/11 Commission Report: Omissions and Distortions. Cheney and Bush's refusal to testify under oath to their own Commission, and their insistence upon speaking only in private, off the record while in each other's presence is just one of the more obvious red flags.

The chair and vice chair of the 9/11 Commission have distanced themselves to a degree from their own report by admitting that "the Commission was set up to fail". (Without Precedent: The Inside Story of the 9/11 Commission). Following the recent launch of a criminal probe into the CIA's destruction of video evidence they went a step further saying "What we do know is that government officials decided not to inform a lawfully constituted body, created by Congress and the President, to investigate one the greatest tragedies to confront this country. We call that obstruction."

The events of 9/11 were the catalyst and continue to provide the rationale for the "war on terror" including the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq and many changes in foreign and domestic policy in America, Europe and elsewhere. British soldiers have been at the forefront of these wars. It is our democratic right (and duty) therefore to have an evidence based understanding of this seminal event.

A September 06, 2007 national poll by the major American polling agency Zogby International reported:

51% of Americans Want Congress to Probe Bush/Cheney Regarding 9/11 Attacks;
Over 30% Seek Immediate Impeachment;
67% also fault 9/11 Commission for not investigating anomalous collapse of World Trade Center 7.

What does this prove? After all, many Americans (and people in general) hold beliefs based on faith, not evidence. Roughly 80% believe evolution had no part in creating humans. However, such beliefs are "received" (from parents, church etc.) and subject to little change within a generation. How is it that such a high percentage now distrust the 9/11 Commission's account although it is the only one the mainstream media has broadcast? The widespread internet distribution of public domain data contradicting this version has led an increasing number to suspect another Bush propaganda coup on a par with the Iraqi weapons of mass destruction. How much longer can the mainstream media sustain a degree of credibility while refusing either to analyse or report any of this?

On January the 10th the Japenese Prime Minister was quizzed in a session of the defense and foreign affairs committee by a member of the opposition regarding a few of (the many) problems with the official account: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 9949942423
This was in the context of Japan's growing reluctance to continue providing financial support for the war in Afghanistan in light of her post WW2 pacifist constitution. Although the 30 minute exchange was televised live nationally it garnered no newspaper or television comment either here or in Japan.

On January 19th the former chief UN weapons inspector Scott Ritter (who counselled against launching a pre-emptive war on Iraq at least until some evidence of the alledged WMD could be found) said: "The 9/11 Commission's report is inadequate to the task... Did Bush and Cheney Plan the demise of the building? Was this a terrorist attack by Al-Qaeda? Or was it something in between? Well frankly we don't know... we have an absolute requirement to know what happened on 9-11"

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Re: Terrorists in the White House

Postby Yorkshire Pudding » Tue Feb 05, 2008 9:24 am

As a scientist (by education rather than profession), avid Dawkins reader and convinced evolutionist, I was fascinated by the link:
PennyMachines wrote: Roughly 80% believe evolution had no part in creating humans.
So thanks for that!

Just a thought... but to keep 'more of the people happy for more of the time' would it be worth considering opening a 'Virtual Pub' forum and moving this subject to a thread within that forum. In TALKMAGIC, for example, we have a non magic area, 'The Dove's Head', which encourages discussion on any OT subject like this and is a great asset to the boards. It encourages newbies to get more involved and less intimidated by the greater On Topic knowledge of the more experienced members.

Just trying to find a happy common ground...

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Re: Investigate 9/11!

Postby badpenny » Tue Feb 05, 2008 9:52 am

Yorkshire Pudding wrote:As a scientist (by education rather than profession), avid Dawkins reader and convinced evolutionist, I was fascinated by the link:
PennyMachines wrote: Roughly 80% believe evolution had no part in creating humans.
So thanks for that!

Just a thought... but to keep 'more of the people happy for more of the time' would it be worth considering opening a 'Virtual Pub' forum and moving this subject to a thread within that forum. In TALKMAGIC, for example, we have a non magic area, 'The Dove's Head', which encourages discussion on any OT subject like this and is a great asset to the boards. It encourages newbies to get more involved and less intimidated by the greater On Topic knowledge of the more experienced members.

Just trying to find a happy common ground...
Wow ..... thanks for that link Yorkie ................... been interested in close up for 30 odd years ever since I ran a pub in Goodge St London and used to visit the MC club house every Monday night. Coins are my fav. affects. I shall certainly peruse Talkmagic.co.uk.

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Re: Investigate 9/11!

Postby badpenny » Tue Feb 05, 2008 9:54 am

........... oh and by the way I agree with you about the Virtual Pub thing, I visit a canal forum (another interest) they do the same.

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Re: Investigate 9/11!

Postby operator bell » Tue Feb 05, 2008 10:28 am

Well, there are very strong grounds for skepticism about 9/11. The suspicious destruction of the infamous CIA interrogation tapes, which are thought to have been pertinent to the subject, has caused some cracks to appear even amongst the faithful. Perhaps they're just positioning themselves in anticipation of a regime change in November.
Paul Craig Roberts wrote:Many Americans are content with the 9/11 Commission Report, but the two chairmen of the commission, Thomas Kean and Lee Hamilton are not. Neither was commission member Max Cleland, a US Senator who resigned from the 9/11 Commission, telling the Boston Globe (November 13, 2003): "This investigation is now compromised." Even former FBI director Louis Freeh wrote in the Wall Street Journal (Nov. 17, 2005) that there are inaccuracies in the commission's report and "questions that need answers."
Roberts is not exactly a liberal - he was Reagan's Assistant Secretary of the Treasury, Associate Editor of the rabidly right-wing Wall Street Journal editorial page and Contributing Editor of the neo-con National Review. Here's the whole article. Here's the New York Times article he cites. The London Times articles on the Sibel Edmonds business are attracting quite a lot of attention too, particularly as it's real news to us - no American media outlet has so much as mentioned it. It's not 9/11 stuff, but who knows what will unravel if the threads get pulled. Some are wondering why Murdoch would allow such an embarrassing story, unless he's thinking of switching sides the way he did with John Major.

Of course, the fact that our government lies through its teeth about nearly everything is hardly news, and whoever wins the election, nothing will change. Don't expect that anyone will actually be punished for this, let alone serve time. They can't even prosecute a foreign spy ring when they know exactly who they are and what they did. That's why most Americans hold the Federal government in utter contempt and Congress has an even lower approval rating than the President.

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Re: Investigate 9/11!

Postby Yorkshire Pudding » Tue Feb 05, 2008 12:23 pm

Badpenny wrote: Wow ..... thanks for that link Yorkie ................... been interested in close up for 30 odd years ....
You're very welcome! :D Read the stickies and post an INTRO and I'm sure they'll all make you feel very welcome there. I also have been into close up for over 30 years and have learned a lot since joining Talkmagic.

Coincidentally, it was my interest in magic that first got me into this hobby too... a Bryans Magic Machine (String Cutter) that was on ebay a few years ago and is still my favourite piece!

Hope to see you there!

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Re: Investigate 9/11!

Postby jimmycowman » Wed Nov 05, 2008 11:08 pm

barrack obama has made history first blackman to enter whitehouse without a mop and bucket!!!!!


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