Page 1 of 2

Info wanted on using an old Patent to get something made from said Patent but where?

Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 7:03 pm
by madmickshere
Info wanted on using an old Patent to get something made from said Patent but where and how?
I know that's not slot related or even clear, anyways if any of you can point me in the right direction or can provide information please feel free to share.
I'm into most vintage and mechanical things which is why I found the forum in the first place. I recently discovered a huge amount of interest in a very old table top press (I don't want to say what type of press at the moment) which has long disappeared from the public domain, yet I have found out the design patents for it. After a bit of research I found out that ownership of most patents has run out after about 20 years, this press won't be affected by that as it's well ancient. What I don't know however is where to take the old patents or who to talk with to get a press or lots of presses made. Obviously theres the cost, manufacturing, here or abroad (I would like it made as near as the original as possible) and a non-disclosure with a manufacturer.
Any ideas?
Mick

Re: Info wanted on using an old Patent to get something made from said Patent but where?

Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 8:25 am
by coppinpr
If the patent has expired then its yours to copy and the patent drawings are a perfect way to present it the a manafacturer, there are lots of link sites on the web to put you intouch with people who make things just search online.
If this is something you think might be worth while making in numbers you must of course patent it yourself,then its yours alone

Re: Info wanted on using an old Patent to get something made from said Patent but where?

Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 9:38 am
by madmickshere
coppinpr wrote:If the patent has expired then its yours to copy and the patent drawings are a perfect way to present it the a manafacturer, there are lots of link sites on the web to put you intouch with people who make things just search online.
Can you point me in the right direction as to what to actually search for online as I get inundated with sites and overloaded with too much information not useful to me.
coppinpr wrote: this is something you think might be worth while making in numbers you must of course patent it yourself,then its yours alone
The patent has definitely expired however to patent it myself do I take the originals back to the patent office and ask / pay for them to be done in my name?

Ps: The Bell Fruit images are being done as I write, I'm just waiting for them to be posted to me, I have also located and bought another knackered machine with all the parts I have missing from mine so hopefully soon I'll have it up and running.

Re: Info wanted on using an old Patent to get something made from said Patent but where?

Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 1:23 pm
by coppinpr
there are patent experts on the forum but as far as Im aware if the patent is actually dead then there is no reason you cant use the original drawings as your patent, what was the original patent date? if its more than 80 years(I think) even any copyright on the written description would be up leaving it in the public domain.

Do you want the thing made in the UK? if not Alibaba.com is a good start. Or just ask the detailed question in the search box, you will be surprised what comes up.

Re: Info wanted on using an old Patent to get something made from said Patent but where?

Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 3:39 pm
by madmickshere
Having looked further at the patent it was originally placed in the '20s. It has been remade since by different companies in the '50s, '60s, '70s and finally in 1989 with some alterations, however I find reading the patents, details and whether it's available quite difficult to understand.

Re: Info wanted on using an old Patent to get something made from said Patent but where?

Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 8:17 pm
by pennymachines
I'm not an expert but I'm fairly sure under British patent law, if a patent expires because it's run its course it cannot be renewed. This is in keeping with the original purpose of patents to grant inventors a temporary monopoly on their intellectual endeavours. However, you could file a new version of the patent if you thought of a novel way of improving the design, but the patent would only protect the improvements, not the original design.

Re: Info wanted on using an old Patent to get something made from said Patent but where?

Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 9:19 pm
by coppinpr
Can that be correct MR P. If that was the case it would in effect mean the patent lasts forever !PUZZLED! unless what your saying is you can make it and sell it but not own the rights to it and nobody else can. As you say though, in this case, I'd be very surprised if you couldn't update the drawings using modern materials and thus file a new patent. In fact I would expect a manufacturer to insist on changes after 80 years.

Re: Info wanted on using an old Patent to get something made from said Patent but where?

Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 11:35 pm
by pennymachines
howardlock.co.uk wrote:When a patent reaches its twentieth anniversary it expires and the holder can no longer claim exclusivity on its usage.
Pursuing a patent would be a waste of time and money. I doubt that a new material would meet the inventive step criterion required for a patent, particularly as Mick wants it "as near as the original as possible". As I said, even if granted, it wouldn't stop a competitor from making the press in the original or another material, so little would be achieved.

Better to concentrate on whether there's a market for it and, if so, sourcing a manufacturer.

Re: Info wanted on using an old Patent to get something made from said Patent but where?

Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 11:14 am
by madmickshere
pennymachines wrote:
howardlock.co.uk wrote:When a patent reaches its twentieth anniversary it expires and the holder can no longer claim exclusivity on its usage.
Pursuing a patent would be a waste of time and money. I doubt that a new material would meet the inventive step criterion required for a patent, particularly as Mick wants it "as near as the original as possible". As I said, even if granted, it wouldn't stop a competitor from making the press in the original or another material, so little would be achieved.

Better to concentrate on whether there's a market for it and, if so, sourcing a manufacturer.
I think that's answered a few questions I have, definitely think there is a market for it (at the right price) especially as I do want to keep as near to the original as possible being that it is the retro / vintage idea of this product that will sell it and a demand amongst youngsters for a product like this.
However finding a manufacturer is a problem.

Re: Info wanted on using an old Patent to get something made from said Patent but where?

Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 4:39 pm
by bryans fan
I have no experience of this whatsoever.
But generally it would seem that China is able to copy almost anything, and cheaply. I think the repro Allwins were made in China.