Academics on the rise and future of vintage arcades in contemporary seaside resorts

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Academics on the rise and future of vintage arcades in contemporary seaside resorts

Post by pennymachines »

The 'heritagisation' of the British seaside resort: The rise of the 'old penny arcade, by Anya Chapman and Duncan Light, Journal of Heritage Tourism, August 2011, Bournemouth University
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Re: Academics on the rise and future of vintage arcades in contemporary seaside resorts

Post by mr merrivale »

It is a very interesting read but the main thing is just how many have closed since the paper was written and how few have opened.
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Re: Academics on the rise and future of vintage arcades in contemporary seaside resorts

Post by moonriver »

Well I waded through reading it all, and I can't find any reference to the part where in 2007 the bookmakers were given free rein to shaft the entire amusement industry as we have bitterly discussed at length here before.
As a result the catastrophic decline of both coastal and inland amusement arcades ensued. Any other supposed reasons for their decline are much misunderstood.
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Re: Academics on the rise and future of vintage arcades in contemporary seaside resorts

Post by dickywink »

Hi Moonriver
As much as I hate the fact that the bookies totally scammed the gullible with their £100 a spin slots ... I think the whole fruit machine industry was on the decline before that. The main reason was that machines were so manipulated by tricks and emptier's by people with the knowledge that there was no amusement left in them for the average punter.

Also as the RTP (return to player) on online casinos is a lot higher than land-based arcades (96% vs 80%), most punters moved to their phones and PCs for their gambling fix.

It's sad that there are now no physical reel-based AWP manufacturers left in the UK as all have moved to video screens.

It really is an end of an era.

All the best ... Dicky
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Re: Academics on the rise and future of vintage arcades in contemporary seaside resorts

Post by moonriver »

Dickywink:
Yours is an interesting perspective, however I can assure you, after 30 years of owner operating both inland amusement arcades and adult gaming centres, our industry was not in decline, and my businesses were solvent. We had a diverse and innovative amusement industry, always going with the flow, the latest trends and manufacturers were always producing something new to try. Then the Law changed and overnight the bookmakers were permitted to increase their max bet on their games to £100 a spin, and with for example a William Hill 'Plus' card, increased that bet to up to £1000 a spin (specifically roulette). The very same overnight change required Adult Gaming Centres to reduce their maximum price of play from £2 a spin, down to just £1 a spin. What do you think happened over the following few months? Bookmakers mushroomed in most high streets nationwide, and we found our takings 40% down, unable to compete on an unfair playing field.

Despite lobbying as an industry this unfair situation remained in place for more than a decade leading to massive arcade and gaming centre closure nationwide.

Starved of the money from the amusement industry to drive innovation and investment from the machine manufacturers, the knock on effect was they closed or downsized too. Industry trade exhibitions such as ATEI downsized by half, a shadow of its former self and mainly casino manufacturers rather than arcades.

A new Gambling Commission unfit for purpose relied upon fleecing the very amusement industry with disproportionally high new licensing fees simply to fund itself, seemingly unaware of the irony of killing the golden goose.

With regard to percentage payouts we were required by Law prior to 2007 to have 92% payout and random play on £500 jackpot machines, £2 max stake per spin. Not 80%.

Following the change in the Law the newly legitimised fixed odds betting terminals have NEVER been controlled or scrutinised by the Gambling Commission as far as game design, game play or percentage payouts are concerned. What I do know is that the bookmakers machines have everything controlled remotely via fibre optics from head office. New games are uploaded to the machines, faults are corrected without techs ever going to site, and games are monitored live by operatives at head office. Heavy spending punters are monitored one on one by handlers as they play without their knowledge and monitored live on cam, spin by spin. Game percentages can be changed literally as the punter plays, enticing with wins and then holding off. We know of one taxi business owner that was spending £4,500 a day on roulette alone. The bookmakers had over 10 years of hardcore casino gaming right there on the high street in plain site, nothing to do with amusement, instead a very covert and manipulative means of literally fleecing customers. Meanwhile, arcades were stuck in a limbo situation not allowed to operate these same machines and only allowed £1 max spin.

Why then do you think amusement arcades have closed down, and why do you think Bet365 boss Denise Coates earns £469m in a single year?

Finally with regard to reel based machines, most inland arcades and gaming centres (notably Nobles) have all been bought out by Admiral, the only company large enough to challenge the bookmakers machines with their own range of character based video multi screen games that they successfully operate throughout Europe. Only recently has the Law in the UK been changed again in response to public outrage at the massive social damage the bookmakers roulette terminals have caused, but it's too little too late for the arcade industry. Of course there are other factors that have since come into play and new ways to gamble if you're so inclined that weren't available previously.

My point is that any commercial competition within a fair and level playing field is perfectly acceptable and a business can adapt, but when a whole industry is literally stopped by Law from being able to compete fairly and yet its competitors are allowed to operate machines that it can not, then all that has happened above is not just a coincidence.
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Re: Academics on the rise and future of vintage arcades in contemporary seaside resorts

Post by dickywink »

Wow Moonriver,
That's a great insight and I feel your plight. The bookies had a lot to answer for. It annoyed me when the GC (quite rightly ) reverted FOBTs back to £2 play, and all the bookies could do was moan about loss of profits and that they may have to close shops and loss of jobs etc., but prior to FOBTs there were NOT 5 or 6 bookies in one high street, so in reality it was just back to normal for them. They should be ashamed.

As you can likely tell, I'm not a fan of bookies (or AGCs for that matter) but I love the seaside arcades and of course Ditchburn Jukeboxes.
Sadly the Gambling Commission is on a mission to remove gambling exposure to children, and as a lot of seaside arcade fun involves some form of gambling, whether it's winning tickets or 2ps. But the GC doing this would also remove a lot of the fun from the arcades. Hopefully they won't destroy another sector of the business and will leave it alone.

all the best ... Dicky
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Re: Academics on the rise and future of vintage arcades in contemporary seaside resorts

Post by clubconsoles »

Hi moonriver.
The following I have lifted directly from your post-

"Heavy spending punters are monitored one on one by handlers as they play without their knowledge and monitored live on cam, spin by spin. Game percentages can be changed literally as the punter plays, enticing with wins and then holding off"

These are serious allegations against bookmakers, can you tell me what proof you have of the above claim?
feel free to Private message me if you like?
Thanks Nigel
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Re: Academics on the rise and future of vintage arcades in contemporary seaside resorts

Post by moonriver »

clubconsoles wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 8:08 pm
These are serious allegations against bookmakers, can you tell me what proof you have of the above claim?
feel free to Private message me if you like?
Thanks Nigel
I don't intend to spend much more time justifying my previous comments, as there is much in the public domain for those who don't have first hand experience but wish to take the time to research if they so choose. Former Sports Minister, Labour MP Gerry Sutcliffe's crusade against the amusement industry and his bookmaker and racing connections are legendary.
Suffice to say my comment about bookmakers are aimed at the big players and not the small independents. When I finally closed my
amusement businesses, my arcade managers of 20 years found new employment working for one of them and now hold senior positions.
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Re: Academics on the rise and future of vintage arcades in contemporary seaside resorts

Post by limpo »

dickywink wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 9:57 pm Hi Moonriver
As much as I hate the fact that the bookies totally scammed the gullible with their £100 a spin slots ... I think the whole fruit machine industry was on the decline before that. The main reason was that machines were so manipulated by tricks and emptier's by people with the knowledge that there was no amusement left in them for the average punter.

Also as the RTP (return to player) on online casinos is a lot higher than land-based arcades (96% vs 80%), most punters moved to their phones and PCs for their gambling fix.

It's sad that there are now no physical reel-based AWP manufacturers left in the UK as all have moved to video screens.

It really is an end of an era.

All the best ... Dicky
You're absolutely right...
my family and I recently flew to the USA in the state of PA and, as always, according to the old tradition, we wanted to look into the old casino where dad was in his youth
and due to the pandemic and the development of mobile networks, it has already closed
we were interested in how they work for them, we tried it a little, especially since I'm not a big fan of all this because my father was addicted but one thing even interested me, since I have plans to fly there on an exchange. These are tax calculators. I do not remember exactly. Most likely it was not this site. I took the first one I saw https://pennsylvania-online-gambling.com/tax-calculator
and it doesn't matter which site I found in order to protect its users they introduce such innovations. I think if this had happened in the days of my father's youth, it might have been different :!?!: !PUZZLED! |/XX\|
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dickywink
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Re: Academics on the rise and future of vintage arcades in contemporary seaside resorts

Post by dickywink »

limpo wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 11:28 am You're absolutely right...
my family and I recently flew to the USA in the state of PA and, as always, according to the old tradition, we wanted to look into the old casino where dad was in his youth
and due to the pandemic and the development of mobile networks, it has already closed
we were interested in how they work for them, we tried it a little, especially since I'm not a big fan of all this because my father was addicted but one thing even interested me, since I have plans to fly there on an exchange. These are tax calculators. I do not remember exactly. Most likely it was not this site. I took the first one I saw https://pennsylvania-online-gambling.com/tax-calculator
and it doesn't matter which site I found in order to protect its users they introduce such innovations. I think if this had happened in the days of my father's youth, it might have been different :!?!: !PUZZLED! |/XX\|
Hi... Yes I feel your plight... I have experienced first hand the tough taxation at these US casinos. Around six years ago I was working in Chicago near O'Hare Airport and visited the Rivers Casino as they had a great (but very small) Korean restaurant. After my meal and on the the way out, I decided to have a quick punt and it was going to be quick as I only had $60 in my pocket, so played a 3 reeler machine $1 a spin... Well, after about 12 spins I got a red 7 and two wilds... and thought ooooh great, looked up and saw that 3 x red 7s was $100 - blooming fantastic I thought... but the credit meter went past 100 and then I noticed the light on the top was flashing... and then people started gathering around me... saying well done... it was then I realized that the first wild was x5 and the second wild was x10 ($100 x5 x10 = $5K). I started jumping up and down... I had never won this amount of money before... So the attendant turned up to do a hand pay and asked me for my US social security number... As a UK resident, I did not have one... so they informed me that they would have to deduct 30% Tax at source, which they gave me a receipt for. It was a big chunk ($1500) but hey I had $3500 now in my pocket... Next day I went down Guitar Center and bought a guitar that I wanted so badly but previously could not afford. Great memories and also helped the US government out with $1500 worth of taxation. :)

All the best .... Dicky
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Re: Academics on the rise and future of vintage arcades in contemporary seaside resorts

Post by moonriver »

When I won a hand pay jackpot at the Luxor in Vegas the host had me fill in an ITIN form and the casino paid me in full, no tax deduction. It took about 40 mins to do.
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Re: Academics on the rise and future of vintage arcades in contemporary seaside resorts

Post by limpo »

dickywink wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 8:45 pm
limpo wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 11:28 am You're absolutely right...
my family and I recently flew to the USA in the state of PA and, as always, according to the old tradition, we wanted to look into the old casino where dad was in his youth
and due to the pandemic and the development of mobile networks, it has already closed
we were interested in how they work for them, we tried it a little, especially since I'm not a big fan of all this because my father was addicted but one thing even interested me, since I have plans to fly there on an exchange. These are tax calculators. I do not remember exactly. Most likely it was not this site. I took the first one I saw https://pennsylvania-online-gambling.com/tax-calculator
and it doesn't matter which site I found in order to protect its users they introduce such innovations. I think if this had happened in the days of my father's youth, it might have been different :!?!: !PUZZLED! |/XX\|
Hi... Yes I feel your plight... I have experienced first hand the tough taxation at these US casinos. Around six years ago I was working in Chicago near O'Hare Airport and visited the Rivers Casino as they had a great (but very small) Korean restaurant. After my meal and on the the way out, I decided to have a quick punt and it was going to be quick as I only had $60 in my pocket, so played a 3 reeler machine $1 a spin... Well, after about 12 spins I got a red 7 and two wilds... and thought ooooh great, looked up and saw that 3 x red 7s was $100 - blooming fantastic I thought... but the credit meter went past 100 and then I noticed the light on the top was flashing... and then people started gathering around me... saying well done... it was then I realized that the first wild was x5 and the second wild was x10 ($100 x5 x10 = $5K). I started jumping up and down... I had never won this amount of money before... So the attendant turned up to do a hand pay and asked me for my US social security number... As a UK resident, I did not have one... so they informed me that they would have to deduct 30% Tax at source, which they gave me a receipt for. It was a big chunk ($1500) but hey I had $3500 now in my pocket... Next day I went down Guitar Center and bought a guitar that I wanted so badly but previously could not afford. Great memories and also helped the US government out with $1500 worth of taxation. :)

All the best .... Dicky

Yee
Thank you, this is informative story, hope she helps someone

All the best you too
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Re: Academics on the rise and future of vintage arcades in contemporary seaside resorts

Post by ilovemyjukebox »

Am I the only one here that thinks the demise of inland Arcades was a good thing. As I recall they were full of people who could ill afford to gamble in the first place.

I understand Seaside Arcades from a nostalgic viewpoint but again, a recent visit to one on holiday this year only went to reinforce my point above, full of people trying to earn a living out of the machines rather than recognising them as entertainment.

We have a real issue in this country with gambling. Whether it be bookmakers or online.

Just my pennies worth. I know it won’t be popular.
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Re: Academics on the rise and future of vintage arcades in contemporary seaside resorts

Post by brigham »

ilovemyjukebox wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 8:57 am Am I the only one here that thinks the demise of inland Arcades was a good thing. As I recall they were full of people who could ill afford to gamble in the first place.
That's not what I recall the London ones being full of.

I was around 9 or 10 years old, on a 'Motor Show' trip, and I scrounged some change off the Grown-Ups to go into an arcade in Piccadilly Circus. It was over the road from the Corner House, and I was being watched from there.
It was an interesting visit. When I was asked how it compared to the familiar Durham coast arcades, I told them it was very different. "Even the boys can wear make-up".

I wasn't let out of their sight for the rest of the visit!
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Re: Academics on the rise and future of vintage arcades in contemporary seaside resorts

Post by moonriver »

ilovemyjukebox wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 8:57 am
I understand Seaside Arcades from a nostalgic viewpoint but again, a recent visit to one on holiday this year only went to reinforce my point above, full of people trying to earn a living out of the machines rather than recognising them as entertainment.
Short of being very rude..........Yes, arcades ARE trying to earn a living out of the machines because that is their livelihood, much the same as any other business and income in a difficult market place that their families rely upon , usually generations owned................
and not JUST there for your entertainment.

Or did you think it was all about you? dirtdog
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Re: Academics on the rise and future of vintage arcades in contemporary seaside resorts

Post by ilovemyjukebox »

You miss my point completely. Not the owner trying to earn a living but the punter. Of course the operator’s motivation is to grab as money as possible. However, Drug dealers have lifestyles and families to support too but we don’t tolerate them.
Gambling is addictive in the same way as drugs are. The arcades just fed this. As a child going to the seaside I’d save my money all year to go on holiday and play the slots. Nostalgic. Inland arcades feed those poor souls who are just chasing the next win to try and catch up with their losses. Good riddance to them. The chap who visited London years ago and visited an arcade Yeap Nostalgia. London arcades in modern times housed London’s underbelly.
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Re: Academics on the rise and future of vintage arcades in contemporary seaside resorts

Post by moonriver »

Seeing as you brought up your point which you thought would be controversial, I'm all for debating a subject I'm familiar with.

Having re-read your post, and your subsequent amendments I still don't see how your holiday visit to the seaside arcades left you with the view of "full of people trying to earn a living out of the machines, rather than recognising them as entertainment", as the coastal arcades aimed at the 'family with children' market survive on 2p coin play across the board, and ticket redemption,
so I don't see how the punters are trying to make a living from it?

Every competent business owner's motive is to make money no matter whether it's a barber's shop, greengrocer, bowling alley, or amusement arcade, the difference is size of operation and overheads, they're all businesses.
Why would it not be the barber trying to "grab as much money as possible" from his business? or the greengrocer? Why then is it the arcade owner 'grabbing' the money?

Why are you implying inland arcades and gaming centres in contemporary society are full of drug dealers?

Re addictive behaviour, lots of things that can become addictive are perfectly acceptable ( and legal) in moderation, that when pushed to the extreme become harmful. If as you say about inland arcades "full of those poor souls chasing the next win" ,
are Weatherspoons not 'full of those poor souls just chasing their next alcoholic drink?
or
Ladbrokes, BetFred, PaddyPower, William Hills 'full of those poor souls just chasing their next race?'
or
Dunkin Donuts 'full of those poor souls chasing their next sugar rush?'
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Re: Academics on the rise and future of vintage arcades in contemporary seaside resorts

Post by coppinpr »

I have no problem with any arcade owner running an arcade to earn their living, their morals in doing so are another issue, One thing I can say for sure is there was a BIG difference between the seaside arcade and the city arcades of the early '70s. I worked in some of the busiest arcades in Londons Soho and in some long-lived and successful ones out in the City suburbs, and the clientele was very different from the seaside. To start with the young child with a hand full of pennies didn't exist in the London arcades. I started using these arcades in 1965 as a 15-year-old just starting work nearby (not in the arcades) and they were very much a place of regular punters playing mostly pinballs, there was also a selection of transient punters using the arcades before catching a train or bus, then there was the non-playing section, meeting friends(?) doing deals(?) or just hanging about waisting their unemployed days. these arcades paid out in coins but mostly fags and that was a big draw. By the 70's I was working nights in the Soho arcades doing repairs and emptying machines. this last job was very important, some machines needed emptying several times a night at weekends or they simply jammed up with coins. The Soho arcades had a very different clientele, a lot of sightseers playing the machines for fun, a smaller bunch of hangers about including a lot of hookers (not so much drugs in those days) but the owners tended to make us move these non-players on as soon as possible. As for Soho everything changed at midnight, with the sightseers and theatre-goers gone home the arcades filled to bursting with Chinese people (both male and female)coming in from the now-closed restaurants and clubs in china town and they were clearly there to try and win money, they ONLY played slots, about 3 am they moved on and we closed the arcades and started emptying and repairing the machines that had failed during this frantic final busy period. At 11 am the next shift opened the arcades and the process started again. The owners of these Soho arcades (and the outer city ones that I worked in) were crooks, no one else got a look in. The boss of the ones I worked in became a semi friend of mine, an American of about 50 years old married with kids who lived in a penthouse flat in Kensington but I know for a fact he was answerable to bigger names the like of which I only ever saw at a distance and they never visited the arcades.
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Re: Academics on the rise and future of vintage arcades in contemporary seaside resorts

Post by ilovemyjukebox »

I still don’t think you are reading my post correctly. I apologise if I haven’t got it across properly. There was only an amendment to my second post. I felt it was too rude.

I’m in agreement with you about Betfred and other gaming companies. You can’t watch the telly or listen to the radio without being bombarded by betting ads.

As for public houses feeding alcoholics again we are in agreement accept that there are laws preventing servers selling Alcohol to those that are drunk.

At no point did I say that Inland arcades are full of drug dealers but as you mention it I would say that from personal experience I know a fair few dealers that used Arcades to distribute their wares store their stock etc.

Inland arcades are not nice places. A blight on what is left of the high street and a Mecca for people who have nowhere else to be.

I know we are at opposite ends of the spectrum on this so won’t comment any further.
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Re: Academics on the rise and future of vintage arcades in contemporary seaside resorts

Post by moonriver »

I was going to round off this little discussion by saying how ironic that you hate inland arcades so much as historically if it wasn't for inland arcades you wouldn't have most of the old slot machines you collect today.
All of the big characters, good and bad, from our great Amusement Industry , and the innovation they brought designing and making and then operating machines to entertain the great British public at their inland pleasure fairs, amusement arcades, parlours and fairgrounds have provided the quality and variety of vintage amusement arcade machines we fondly remember and now want to own and enjoy
..............and then I remembered you collect jukeboxes.
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