Restore or conserve?

[pennymachines]

We've often discussed the "restore or conserve" issue over the years, so I was interested to read this recent thread on our American cousin's CoinOpCollectorForum: Experts chime in - Restoring a Little Duke. A new collector eager to dive in head first with paint strippers and bead blaster is warned by more experienced collectors not to destroy what he has. Clearly the value of originality is more widely appreciated than it used to be.

Replacement of the glass is all you should do to the machine. Even replating the handle will look odd on this unrestored machine. When the hobby first emerged in 1976 with California being the first state to legalize the ownership of antique slots, it was thought that to get the most money out of a machine, it had to be restored, no matter how nice it was. That is not longer the case. The nice unrestored original machines consistanly bring more money than restored ones. There are still collectors, mostly newer ones, who say they like their machines real shiny and there are plenty of restored machines available. To restore this machine, you will be out money for polishing and paint and then will have lessened the value of the machine on top of that. There are ways to clean and detail an unrestored slot but it is best left to someone who is familiar with the process. In every collectible group whether is an antique car, mechanical bank, antique furniture, etc., good unrestored pieces bring more money than restored ones.

[bryans fan]

At last! I do hope this approach becomes the Gold standard.

[badpenny]

I was beginning to think some of us were lone voices in the wilderness ....

[john t peterson]

If this trend catches on, I'm going to stop saying "all original" and begin promoting myself as "unrestored."

J Peterson
Awaiting restoration in America

[coppinpr]

My view will always be the same, leave the machine alone unless its reached that certain stage where your brain tells you its either restore or scrap, THEN I have no problem with totally stripping the machine and rebuilding it, In this case I believe Ive not destroyed an original machine but saved one from the scrap yard.

buckingham as was.jpg (1.54 KiB) Viewed 3014 times

restore it

restore it

jub start.JPG (26.32 KiB) Viewed 3014 times

restore it

restore it (I think)

[badpenny]

I can't really see anyone disagreeing with you coppinpr when it comes to putting a wreck back into circulation.
It has to be a better option than junking it.

BP

[malcymal]

Should we not throw in the word renovation? To conserve, renovate or restore? I think many of us renovate, some a lot better than me unless we have very deep pockets.

[treefrog]

Trouble is I have been banging on about this since I have been on here, as I repeat, the real collectible machines will be those in their original state. Sometimes this is not the original factory finish, but the finish and patina of 60+ years of repairs, changes and modifications.What most people on here do is strip all this all away, thinking they are helping in making it look original. Whether a bandit collector who thinks some old paint means the machine is knackered or a Allwin collector who insists on stripping away the travelling arcade artwork/paint they tried to attract their clientele with, this is all part of the history....

[coppinpr]

I agree with what you say TF although it raises a few questions of definitions. A good example of what you're saying would be the last of my four photos above, hence my comment "restore (I think)". Here is a machine not in original condition but carrying its working skin of perhaps 50 years ago. The operator must have re painted it to give it new life, perhaps not for the first time. If the old machines had stayed in service it may well have had several more makeovers, so sometimes, could it not be said that when we strip and repaint a machine we are simply doing what the operators would have done and had always done?
Because these machines were so well built in an era of things being made to last I wonder if the makers themselves would have expected them to continue to get a facelift for as long as they existed. I'm not saying the value isn't changed or that the machine may not seem so collectable to some, only that a good revamp is what the makers and operators of the past would have expected us to do.

[widget2k4]

I have to totally agree with Paul on this one.
This example I have bought although its damage etc. is all part of its history I simply could not let it go unrestored.
Although it's original and untouched for many years, it sold for pennies compared to the same machines that's been restored.

[glittering-prize67]

Well how can you devalue a machine by making it look like the factory intended? I agree, cheap mods or silly colours chosen by what paint you have lying around is not good, but making it nice and clean and pleasing to look at how it was originally intended is more then acceptable. I like nice clean machines looking how they should, and working how they should. Who would want shoddy crap in there house? Not me.

[pennymachines]

Discerning collectors pay premium prices for machines which have survived with minimum restoration because they're responding to them as antiques. Much of the charm is in the traces left by decades of use and graceful ageing. Subtle effects of wear and patination etc. are completely erased by stripping paints, varnishes and metal finishes. As a collector, if I'm confronted with two examples of the same machine, the first in excellent unrestored condition, and the second sparkling with new varnish, paint and chrome just as it might have 80 years ago when it left the factory, I will favour the first.

The second machine lacks the authentic marks of time which make historical artefacts so beguiling. Of course it may represent a very honourable job of returning a poor condition example to factory original appearance. However, if before restoration it looked like the first machine, it would, in my opinion, have been damaged and devalued by over-restoration.

[coppinpr]

I agree with MrP, but I think you must agree that, when offered the machines you mention, if there were twenty versions of the first unrestored machine each a little more damaged and less original than the first there would come a point somewhere along the line where you don't want the unrestored machine because of its condition. At that point the machine moves from "retain" to "restore", so there is always a case for both. Both have their place in our hobby and both are important; one preserves the machine so future collectors can see the machine in original condition; the other saves a machine from extinction and, possibly, restores it to show future collectors what it looked like on day one.

As to value, restoration will always devalue a machine that stands in a collactable but not perfect condition (as with almost all other antiques) but restoration of a badly damaged machine will always increase its value from its unrestored condition.

[aristomatic]

This thread could run and run...... This subject is a very emotive one. I am a member on various forums both in UK and in the States and it is a subject that comes up probably at least once per year on each forum, if not more on busier forums. I have all sorts of machines in my collection and I mean all sorts....... I don't agree that it "always" devalues an "original" to fully restore it, as "value" along with "beauty" is in the eyes of the beholder" and if that person is not a "collector" of such machines then they may well pay far far more than a "collector" would for the "original" machine. It may also depend somewhat on the make or model of machine............ If it's, shall we say a simple Aristocrat bandit, the majority of collectors may not want to even buy it even if a very good original example (as they don't in particular "value" that make or model), which is fine as that's their own opinion/business and even if they did, they may not "value" it too highly. However, by refurbishing/renovating/restoring that machine, it may triple its selling price (e.g. value to the seller) to a non collector when marketed correctly.

However, change the make or model maybe to a more (in general) "prized" make or model, shall we say a Jennings Chief, then if it's in good original condition, as it's a more "prized" example it would be far more difficult to achieve the above plus any increase in sell price would in this case be swallowed up with the oncost.

Anyway, here was my latest conundrum....... two old fairground bikes................
One has had the paint stripper out on it........ and one hasn't.................................

[jonesthegarage]

I think we'd all agree that this one needs some attention, in spite of it's condition telling it's own story of a life in an arcade

Looks like it was painted outdoors by a drunk blind man on a wet and windy night with some paint and a brush he found in a skip

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mills-Hi-Top- ... 1e8cd58155

....and I just noticed the listing ends with those immortal words "for ornamental purposes" - as they say "in the eye of the beholder."

[ddstoys]

Each to their own. But personally I won't restore unless it's stuffed. Wow that's old is ok what's that rubbish is not

[badpenny]

I know the vendor and have bought and sold to/from him on many occasions.
What he and his Father don't know about slots blah blah blah .... lovely wife ... super children.

However I am amazed to learn he also has a large collection of toilet rolls.