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Re: C.M. Schwarz Tura
Posted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 12:50 pm
by faautomater
My first restoration was also an old rusty Tura. I had no clue what everything was and it looked
like this.
The learning curve was almost as rough as the condition of the machine, but after some 300 hours, it was done. Yours does look nearly as bad, so you should have it knocked out in half that time
I wrote a bunch of
articles / tips on restoring various Tura machines. They're in Danish, but perhaps the
images and the Google translate option can give you some pointers. I also have a box of Tura parts in the attic (though no original payout table) should your other leads turn cold.
Re: C.M. Schwarz Tura
Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 8:07 pm
by mastereddy69
Hello faautomater, thank you for your post. You did a wonderful job on the Tura. Your pictures will help me for sure and if I need parts I will give you a shout for sure.
Greetings Albert.
Re: C.M. Schwarz Tura
Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 1:12 pm
by mills
If you need images to re-built your machine :
https://retro-jackpot.fr/tura
Re: C.M. Schwarz Tura
Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 3:09 pm
by mastereddy69
Thank you Mills, I found that site too. It's really helping me with putting it all back together. Made myself lots of pictures too. The only thing I don't like is that it looks like some parts are brand new or spray painted like a silver colour? But that is personal. I am stripping and cleaning the mechanism to bring it back to its natural state. I mean the machine is what, 80 years old. I think it looks better that way.
But again that is personal.
Greetings
Albert
Re: C.M. Schwarz Tura
Posted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 5:49 pm
by santelmann
mastereddy69 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 29, 2019 6:35 pm
Does anyone know what that little glass window is on the top left of the front of the machine?
Normaly is a small numbered disc (2 ,4,8,12,16,20), driven by some gears from payout unit, behind the window.
It shows the value of last profit.
In 99% the parts a missing. I knew only 2 machines that still have this item.
Re: C.M. Schwarz Tura
Posted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 6:30 pm
by santelmann
@Albert:
The right reel of your machine is from a (wrecked) Kasus. Notice the gear inside the reel.
Here some pics of my machine during restoration.
Re: C.M. Schwarz Tura
Posted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:14 am
by treefrog
That’s interesting the first Tura in this thread has a 10 stop mechanism and your machine last one posted unless my eyes are deceiving me has a 30 stop version. I have seen 25 and 28, but never 30. I see though limited pay holes and reel strips are a little odd. What is the story with this machine
Re: C.M. Schwarz Tura
Posted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:35 am
by santelmann
The Kasus was the last Tura machine with approval by authorities. You've seen right, it has 30 Stop positions, but only the white space between the geometric symbols is profit zone.
System is:
-Insert coin, pull handle
-Start machine reels running by push left brake button
-Hard push on brake buttons stops reels
-After stop reels you have to "shift" reels with soft touch on brake buttons to a "profit combination"
Running time (and shifting possible) is from left to right reel: 2 1/2, 3 1/2, 4 1/2 seconds.
So you have to play against the clockwork inside.
Link to Kasus advertisement:
https://retro-jackpot.fr/images/phocaga ... arz-11.jpg
After war no one wants to have machines with Kasus system. They were all wrecked, in most cases to build up "normal" machines. In some cases Kasus parts appear in "normal" Tura machines, like the one wheel with gear inside at first machine in this thread.
At the moment I prepare the Kasus for Automateum-Convention this month. If machine is running I post you a video link.
Re: C.M. Schwarz Tura
Posted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 2:40 pm
by mastereddy69
santelmann wrote: ↑Sun Sep 08, 2019 6:30 pm
@Albert:
The right reel of your machine is from a (wrecked) Kasus. Notice the gear inside the reel.
WOW.... I just keep learning about this every day.
Re: C.M. Schwarz Tura
Posted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 2:46 pm
by mastereddy69
And is it true that the mechanisms of a Tura were made by Mills or is that not true?
Re: C.M. Schwarz Tura
Posted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:31 pm
by daveslot
santelmann wrote: ↑Sat Sep 07, 2019 5:49 pm
mastereddy69 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 29, 2019 6:35 pm
Does anyone know what that little glass window is on the top left of the front of the machine?
Normaly is a small numbered disc (2 ,4,8,12,16,20), driven by some gears from payout unit, behind the window.
It shows the value of last profit.
In 99% the parts a missing. I knew only 2 machines that still have this item.
Think I have a version of this in a rather plain case but with a complete mech. Skills, vender, future play.
Responses to this post split to Jentzsch & Meerz Giganta - Site Admin
Re: C.M. Schwarz Tura
Posted: Sun Sep 15, 2019 7:52 pm
by badpenny
mastereddy69 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 10, 2019 2:46 pm
And is it true that the mechanisms of a Tura were made by Mills or is that not true?
My understanding is that the prototypes were Mills mechs. The idea being that they did the project work. However why I think that I have no idea, I might have read it somewhere or I might just have simply made it up.
BP
Re: C.M. Schwarz Tura
Posted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 11:44 am
by santelmann
It`s not easy to answer that question. I had some discussions with other collectors in the past.
I think Tura used Mills parts, as far they were available, and complete with own parts. Missing parts were produced in Germany.
There were different workshops in the Tura factory building:
Paintshop, joinery, electroplating, metal punch. A lot of work was done by external factories, all castings for example.
There were some German manufacturers who used Mills (and other) machines to build their „own“ product.
For example some stripes for the typical Mills reels: Tura (Schwarz) in paper, Coppel (F.Coppel) in sheet metal:
Re: C.M. Schwarz Tura
Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2023 4:50 pm
by road76
badpenny wrote: ↑Sun Sep 15, 2019 7:52 pm
mastereddy69 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 10, 2019 2:46 pm
And is it true that the mechanisms of a Tura were made by Mills or is that not true?
My understanding is that the prototypes were Mills mechs. The idea being that they did the project work. However why I think that I have no idea, I might have read it somewhere or I might just have simply made it up.
BP
If you translate the Tura document, they said:
Note
Our products are
own German intellectual and manual work
no slave-like imitation of foreign models or patent infringement, therefore no risk of tarnishing as with similar models. On request, all machines can be supplied with a running belt, as in the past.
Now looks like a Mills mech !!!!
About colors, I think most of the machine was yellow, red and black colors of German flag.
Re: C.M. Schwarz Tura
Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2023 2:36 pm
by badpenny
The full story I learnt was.
Gambling in pre war Germany was fiercely controlled.
Hitler looking for every opportunity to raise money suddenly legalised gambling machines.
Mills were invited to supply via Tura Automatenfabrik, prototypes and then large orders, which Mills were never paid for.
All the research & development having been done, Tura started domestic manufacturing and got clearance to import aluminium for casting.
Most of which along with other false projects was diverted to aircraft manufacture.
Now that's all a conglomeration of various conversations I've had in Europe.
I don't know how accurate it is, only that I heard similar accounts from different directions. After all, does it sound like the kind of shenanigans a splendid bunch of chaps like that would have contrived?
I am wary of history being created from stories.
Re: C.M. Schwarz Tura
Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2023 9:55 pm
by santelmann
badpenny wrote: ↑Sat Feb 18, 2023 2:36 pm
Mills were invited to supply via Tura Automatenfabrik, prototypes and then large orders, which Mills were never paid for.
All the research & development having been done, Tura started domestic manufacturing and got clearance to import aluminium for casting.
Schwarz was a trader in early times (together with Coppel) for Mills, then for Jennings.
In 1932 foreign exchange control started in Germany, so there was no chance to import machines legally. Coppel tried smuggling machines to sell with his own castings as a German product. He was later arrested for this.
So Schwarz was forced to build his "own" machines in Germany.
Re: C.M. Schwarz Tura
Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2023 10:19 pm
by badpenny
Thanks
Re: C.M. Schwarz Tura
Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2023 9:03 am
by santelmann
Hi, BP!
When you really intersted in Schwarz history, I could scan a lot of documents.
There are a lot of legends, mostly not true. Materials for casting were in the "Silent" age also availble without problems.
The production of German market bandits ended with a "visit" of authorities in the Tura factory. He cheated them in case that he produced other "Kasus" mechanism than approved. All Kasus machines were forbidden immediately and banned.
For customers Schwarz looks like a con artist.....
- Schwarz.jpg (731.82 KiB) Viewed 1701 times
Re: C.M. Schwarz Tura
Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2023 1:04 pm
by coppinpr
Re: C.M. Schwarz Tura
Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2023 4:02 pm
by badpenny
santelmann wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 9:03 am
Hi, BP!
When you really intersted in Schwarz history, I could scan a lot of documents.
There are a lot of legends, mostly not true. Materials for casting were in the "Silent" age also availble without problems.
The production of German market bandits ended with a "visit" of authorities in the Tura factory. He cheated them in case that he produced other "Kasus" mechanism than approved. All Kasus machines were forbidden immediately and banned.
For customers Schwarz looks like a con artist.....
Schwarz.jpg
Fascinating, lesser squabbles have ended in war you know.
And hearsay passed into history as truth.