Bradley/Whales: Ballwin, Baby Bradwin, Allwin De Luxe etc.

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cait001
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Re: Should I buy this?

Post by cait001 »

Not original ball track you think? Seems to let the winning ball in, effect the payout mech somehow, and then returns the ball to the play area, no?

Very different than this internal shot from the Ballwin thread you posted.

Thanks for looking for me.
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Re: Bradley/Whales: Ballwin, Baby Bradwin, Allwin De Luxe etc.

Post by pennymachines »

Although different from the earlier examples, the internal mechanism looks complete, and probably working.
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Re: Bradley/Whales: Ballwin, Baby Bradwin, Allwin De Luxe etc.

Post by cait001 »

Ok, so I bought it. Finally adding my first UK machine to the collection!
What size of ball do these machines use?
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Re: Bradley/Whales: Ballwin, Baby Bradwin, Allwin De Luxe etc.

Post by pennymachines »

Congratulations and good luck with your purchase. I'm guessing the balls are the standard Oliver Whales 9/16"?
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Re: Bradley/Whales: Ballwin, Baby Bradwin, Allwin De Luxe etc.

Post by cait001 »

I picked up that Ballwin from eBay. Except for the payout slot being slightly different it's very very close to the first machine posted in this forum

Bad news is that FedEx smashed in the front of the frame and busted part of the frame and broke the hinges. That sucks, but fixable in the end.
Good news is that the mechanism works perfectly, releasing the ball when you insert a coin and paying out with the winning pockets.

One thing I am confused about is the gap between the track and the glass. I'm used to pachinko machines where the glass sits very close so the ball can't come forward. See gap here:


20190729_220207a.jpg

(From top to bottom, that's wood, glass, gap, track, wood)
Is this normal? Right now when the ball comes out it falls forward and off the track. Help!

I bought 9/16" balls but those were too large for the pockets. There was one ball in the cabinet that is smaller than 9/16" and it seems to work though it still doesn't stay on the track (see above)

The game came with a few old Australian pennies, from 1905-1942 or so. Is there a recommended guide for coin sizes I should reference? These ones work great, but I definitely need more compatible coins.
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Re: Bradley/Whales: Ballwin, Baby Bradwin, Allwin De Luxe etc.

Post by cait001 »

cait001 wrote: Tue Jul 30, 2019 12:43 pmThe game came with a few old Australian pennies, from 1905-1942 or so. Is there a recommended guide for coin sizes I should reference? These ones work great, but I definitely need more compatible coins.
Wikipedia tells me the Australian pennies of 1911-1965 had the same composition and dimensions as British ones though to 1970, so my next question is, where would be the best place to order 50 British and/or Australian pennies from?
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Re: Bradley/Whales: Ballwin, Baby Bradwin, Allwin De Luxe etc.

Post by treefrog »

Aussie pennies are slightly thicker than the old British pennies, I discovered the same when I could not understand why I was having issues with an Allwin acceptor....then found a few threads on here about it and measured the difference.

Buying old pennies, UK eBay a good start as loads for sale, should be around £7 to £10 per 100, plus the killer shipping costs......maybe you could find some on eBay where you are.

Gap from glass, should be not big enough to allow the ball bearing to bang about when in operation, run smoothly and not get stuck between the glass and track. This can be caused by wrong replacement sheet glass being too thin, but I have had an occasion where even fitting as thick as glass into slot there was too big a glass. Other thing your ball track, is it a replacement, maybe using some kind of aluminium channelled strip, as it looks like it has lips on the sides. If this is the wrong width it may also affect play. Is play smooth?
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Re: Bradley/Whales: Ballwin, Baby Bradwin, Allwin De Luxe etc.

Post by pennymachines »

There was a bag of 1,200 mint old British pennies, sold for around £80 at the Elephant House auction last Sunday. No help, I'm afraid, but they're readily available in the UK, at least.

There should be very little gap between the glass and the ball track, but as I said, your game doesn't have the original ball track. What is the gap between the playfield and glass on yours? The correct track is rolled brass, chrome plated, about 2 cm deep with an inner contour that the ball runs against.
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Re: Bradley/Whales: Ballwin, Baby Bradwin, Allwin De Luxe etc.

Post by brigham »

Try to avoid 'mixed date' pennies from eBay sellers. They are certainly mixed, but they are all invariably ancient and thin.
Stick to the present Queen or her dad. Unissued 1967 ones are readily available in quantity, and worth the little extra cost.
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Re: Bradley/Whales: Ballwin, Baby Bradwin, Allwin De Luxe etc.

Post by cait001 »

treefrog wrote: Tue Jul 30, 2019 2:40 pmbut I have had an occasion where even fitting as thick as glass into slot there was too big a glass. Other thing your ball track, is it a replacement, maybe using some kind of aluminium channelled strip, as it looks like it has lips on the sides. If this is the wrong width it may also affect play. Is play smooth?

When you found the gap was too big, even with the thickest glass, what did you do then? Might have to get a custom secondary piece of glass or lexan up in there to fill the gap.
Consensus seems to be the ball track is a replacement. I will measure it later tonight. I assume the strip would approximately be as wide as the winning cups?

I am not a serious Allwin collector, I just wanted a machine in this style so people could try it at the local coin-op/gameroom show, so willing to listen to all options. !!THUMBSX2!!
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Re: Bradley/Whales: Ballwin, Baby Bradwin, Allwin De Luxe etc.

Post by treefrog »

Usually as I say glass can be the cause, but if your glass does not have lots of movement, it's more likely your track is incorrect. On one machine I had, it was neither and I could not understand why the gap was so large and considered sanding down the face of the wooden edge supports to make it closer....
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Re: Bradley/Whales: Ballwin, Baby Bradwin, Allwin De Luxe etc.

Post by gameswat »

As for the replacement ball track, I guess you could easily replace with a slightly wider alloy angle bar? But one issue will be that without the grooved track that they nearly always used, the ball can wander as it revolves, into the playfield and into the glass! Once it starts ricocheting it won't likely stop - and it sucks! Sounds awful, vibrates terribly and damages the machine by destroying the backflash and chipping the glass. This is usually started by the thumb lever firing pin being worn badly, or the lever being bent. Like playing a pinball machine and trying to shoot the ball with the plunger offset. Also the allwin ball will bounce around if there is any discrepancy with the angles of the tracks as the ball moves from one to the other. Even when I restore fully original machines with grooved tracks I usually have to spend quite a few hours getting everything nicely lined up so the ball runs perfectly smoothly. If the machine is leaning slightly forwards or backwards that will also cause the ball to wander without a track. I have had at least one machine by a major maker that appeared to use steel un-grooved track from new. Possibly due to wartime rationing was all that I could come up with as to why?
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Re: Bradley/Whales: Ballwin, Baby Bradwin, Allwin De Luxe etc.

Post by gameswat »

The payout cup just below the thumb lever seems like a poor design on these Ballwins to me? But never having played one does it get in the way as I would imagine it does?
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Re: Bradley/Whales: Ballwin, Baby Bradwin, Allwin De Luxe etc.

Post by pennymachines »

gameswat wrote: Tue Jul 30, 2019 8:04 pm I have had at least one machine by a major maker that appeared to use steel un-grooved track from new.
Bryans allwins use un-grooved rolled steel. I wonder why they don't suffer the problems you describe. !PUZZLED!
Because of this, I'd always assumed the grooving was more of a refinement than an essential.
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Re: Bradley/Whales: Ballwin, Baby Bradwin, Allwin De Luxe etc.

Post by gameswat »

I know nothing about Bryans Allwins, never owned one, worked on one, or played one that I can remember! I have seen a few in person but didn't look twice as not a fan. Don't Bryans use a slightly larger size ball? If so maybe that was deliberate to leave less space for the ball to move around?? :!?!: I've had a few machines turn up with obviously replaced non grooved tracks and they played like dogs so had to be converted back with spare grooved tracks. The one I did leave was a BMCO that seemed original to me, pretty sure it was a wartime built version. Did take a while to tune that to roll right.
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Re: Bradley/Whales: Ballwin, Baby Bradwin, Allwin De Luxe etc.

Post by pennymachines »

gameswat wrote: Wed Jul 31, 2019 10:02 am Don't Bryans use a slightly larger size ball?
No, slightly smaller. 1/2" instead of the usual 9/16".
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Re: Bradley/Whales: Ballwin, Baby Bradwin, Allwin De Luxe etc.

Post by cait001 »

gameswat wrote: Wed Jul 31, 2019 10:02 amI've had a few machines turn up with obviously replaced non grooved tracks and they played like dogs so had to be converted back with spare grooved tracks. The one I did leave was a BMCO that seemed original to me, pretty sure it was a wartime built version. Did take a while to tune that to roll right.
If I decide to try and redo the track, where can I purchase replacement grooved tracks?
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Re: Bradley/Whales: Ballwin, Baby Bradwin, Allwin De Luxe etc.

Post by treefrog »

No idea of width supposed to be on these, but track occasionally comes up for sale at collectors auctions, but the long wait. Make it, more difficult. Put a wanted add in. Lastly on my list I wonder in the maker of the repro Allwins would do and be willing to sell track, they use grooved stainless steel track http://www.retro-arcade.co.uk/
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Re: Should I buy this?

Post by cait001 »

cait001 wrote: Sat Jul 13, 2019 5:23 pm Topic merged - Site Admin.

A machine in North America!
Should I buy this? Don't know anything about this model, if it's just a knock-off, etc.
https://www.ebay.ca/itm/283539986782?_t ... .S1.R3.TR3

The saga continues!
I did a decent job repairing the Ballwin cabinet that was all smashed apart. Just got notification that the fresh tracks I ordered from retroarcade.co.uk have arrived.
Is there a place to check on this site for tips and tricks when replacing allwin tracks? I'm assuming this is the kind of thing many newbies have asked before.
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Re: Bradley/Whales: Ballwin, Baby Bradwin, Allwin De Luxe etc.

Post by pennymachines »

Good to hear that retroarcade.co.uk supply allwin track. Was it expensive?
You should get some idea of the track layout from the mech board, because it will have holes where the fasteners went in. Also look at the pictures in this topic for position of track ends etc. Does your new track come with fasteners attached or does it have holes for threading split pins?
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