Bradley/Whales: Ballwin, Baby Bradwin, Allwin De Luxe etc.

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treefrog
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Re: Bradley/Whales: Ballwin, Baby Bradwin, Allwin De Luxe etc.

Post by treefrog »

Usually as I say glass can be the cause, but if your glass does not have lots of movement, it's more likely your track is incorrect. On one machine I had, it was neither and I could not understand why the gap was so large and considered sanding down the face of the wooden edge supports to make it closer....
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Re: Bradley/Whales: Ballwin, Baby Bradwin, Allwin De Luxe etc.

Post by gameswat »

As for the replacement ball track, I guess you could easily replace with a slightly wider alloy angle bar? But one issue will be that without the grooved track that they nearly always used, the ball can wander as it revolves, into the playfield and into the glass! Once it starts ricocheting it won't likely stop - and it sucks! Sounds awful, vibrates terribly and damages the machine by destroying the backflash and chipping the glass. This is usually started by the thumb lever firing pin being worn badly, or the lever being bent. Like playing a pinball machine and trying to shoot the ball with the plunger offset. Also the allwin ball will bounce around if there is any discrepancy with the angles of the tracks as the ball moves from one to the other. Even when I restore fully original machines with grooved tracks I usually have to spend quite a few hours getting everything nicely lined up so the ball runs perfectly smoothly. If the machine is leaning slightly forwards or backwards that will also cause the ball to wander without a track. I have had at least one machine by a major maker that appeared to use steel un-grooved track from new. Possibly due to wartime rationing was all that I could come up with as to why?
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Re: Bradley/Whales: Ballwin, Baby Bradwin, Allwin De Luxe etc.

Post by gameswat »

The payout cup just below the thumb lever seems like a poor design on these Ballwins to me? But never having played one does it get in the way as I would imagine it does?
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Re: Bradley/Whales: Ballwin, Baby Bradwin, Allwin De Luxe etc.

Post by pennymachines »

gameswat wrote: Tue Jul 30, 2019 8:04 pm I have had at least one machine by a major maker that appeared to use steel un-grooved track from new.
Bryans allwins use un-grooved rolled steel. I wonder why they don't suffer the problems you describe. !PUZZLED!
Because of this, I'd always assumed the grooving was more of a refinement than an essential.
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Re: Bradley/Whales: Ballwin, Baby Bradwin, Allwin De Luxe etc.

Post by gameswat »

I know nothing about Bryans Allwins, never owned one, worked on one, or played one that I can remember! I have seen a few in person but didn't look twice as not a fan. Don't Bryans use a slightly larger size ball? If so maybe that was deliberate to leave less space for the ball to move around?? :!?!: I've had a few machines turn up with obviously replaced non grooved tracks and they played like dogs so had to be converted back with spare grooved tracks. The one I did leave was a BMCO that seemed original to me, pretty sure it was a wartime built version. Did take a while to tune that to roll right.
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Re: Bradley/Whales: Ballwin, Baby Bradwin, Allwin De Luxe etc.

Post by pennymachines »

gameswat wrote: Wed Jul 31, 2019 10:02 am Don't Bryans use a slightly larger size ball?
No, slightly smaller. 1/2" instead of the usual 9/16".
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Re: Bradley/Whales: Ballwin, Baby Bradwin, Allwin De Luxe etc.

Post by cait001 »

gameswat wrote: Wed Jul 31, 2019 10:02 amI've had a few machines turn up with obviously replaced non grooved tracks and they played like dogs so had to be converted back with spare grooved tracks. The one I did leave was a BMCO that seemed original to me, pretty sure it was a wartime built version. Did take a while to tune that to roll right.
If I decide to try and redo the track, where can I purchase replacement grooved tracks?
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Re: Bradley/Whales: Ballwin, Baby Bradwin, Allwin De Luxe etc.

Post by treefrog »

No idea of width supposed to be on these, but track occasionally comes up for sale at collectors auctions, but the long wait. Make it, more difficult. Put a wanted add in. Lastly on my list I wonder in the maker of the repro Allwins would do and be willing to sell track, they use grooved stainless steel track http://www.retro-arcade.co.uk/
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Re: Should I buy this?

Post by cait001 »

cait001 wrote: Sat Jul 13, 2019 5:23 pm Topic merged - Site Admin.

A machine in North America!
Should I buy this? Don't know anything about this model, if it's just a knock-off, etc.
https://www.ebay.ca/itm/283539986782?_t ... .S1.R3.TR3

The saga continues!
I did a decent job repairing the Ballwin cabinet that was all smashed apart. Just got notification that the fresh tracks I ordered from retroarcade.co.uk have arrived.
Is there a place to check on this site for tips and tricks when replacing allwin tracks? I'm assuming this is the kind of thing many newbies have asked before.
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Re: Bradley/Whales: Ballwin, Baby Bradwin, Allwin De Luxe etc.

Post by pennymachines »

Good to hear that retroarcade.co.uk supply allwin track. Was it expensive?
You should get some idea of the track layout from the mech board, because it will have holes where the fasteners went in. Also look at the pictures in this topic for position of track ends etc. Does your new track come with fasteners attached or does it have holes for threading split pins?
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Re: Bradley/Whales: Ballwin, Baby Bradwin, Allwin De Luxe etc.

Post by cait001 »

pennymachines wrote: Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:38 am Good to hear that retroarcade.co.uk supply allwin track. Was it expensive?
You should get some idea of the track layout from the mech board, because it will have holes where the fasteners went in. Also look at the pictures in this topic for position of track ends etc. Does your new track come with fasteners attached or does it have holes for threading split pins?
I love the retroarcade.co.uk tracks! They do not have holes drilled because they had no idea where my holes were on my machine, and that's fine. They sent me the stainless steel cotter pins they use though.


I got 94 cms track for £16 and a 44 cm one for £12. They are 20 mm wide with a 14mm groove in the center.
It feels super high quality and has a great balance of rotational flex and lateral stability.


20191008_173025a.jpg

I obviously only need one of the longer pieces, and that will be cut down. The shorter 44cm one will fit perfectly as the secondary track and will line up pretty much exactly as the very first Ballwin pic in this forum. (note how the garbage current track in the machine way overshoots the cups compared to an original.)
Excuse the misalignment/gap in the cabinet, there was only so much I could do in repairing the prior damage.
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Re: Bradley/Whales: Ballwin, Baby Bradwin, Allwin De Luxe etc.

Post by treefrog »

Excellent news on retro arcade, as I keep giving their details, but never asked myself, so good to know they will sell spares parts and not too bad a price either !!THUMBSX2!!

I cannot see holes on the backboard of your Allwin where the cotter pins went through so assume the track on this machine used pins as part of the track and tapped in. Not that it matters as you can drill small holes where you want. Funny the only Allwins I have removed track on have all have the tacked embedded in the tracks rather than cotter pins....
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Re: Bradley/Whales: Ballwin, Baby Bradwin, Allwin De Luxe etc.

Post by cait001 »

treefrog wrote: Thu Oct 10, 2019 12:28 pmI cannot see holes on the backboard of your Allwin where the cotter pins went through so assume the track on this machine used pins as part of the track and tapped in.
If you compare my machine photo:

20191008_173025a.jpg

vs the first photo in this forum:

Ballwin.JPG

you can really see how shoddy the replacement track that I'm replacing is. The wasted space on the right where the radius of the outer circle is diminished!
There are tiny nails holding the crappy track in. I imagine I'm going to have to drill a few fresh ones.
Overall I'm expecting this task to be a bit annoying and time consuming, but I think I have a friend already lined up to assist me with a spare set of hands.
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Re: Bradley/Whales: Ballwin, Baby Bradwin, Allwin De Luxe etc.

Post by pennymachines »

Spare allwin track is hard to find, so those prices sound very reasonable for such a specialist component. I was going to suggest you order some lift-off hinges from them, as the ones you have aren't right, but unfortunately, the Bryans-style hinges they use on their allwins aren't suitable either. I suspect the gap at the top may be partly caused by the door not being hung correctly.

The original track fastening holes should be underneath the (plastic?) backboard cover.
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Re: Bradley/Whales: Ballwin, Baby Bradwin, Allwin De Luxe etc.

Post by cait001 »

Check out this blinged out variant!
Posted on a Facebook group, owner asked me to post them here.
Apparently converted to American pennies, and has NYC written on the inside?

Stained glass trim! I am assuming no way the paint or glass is original ;)

Any thoughts? I kind of like its flamboyant style.
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Re: Bradley/Whales: Ballwin, Baby Bradwin, Allwin De Luxe etc.

Post by coppinpr »

Funny, I saw this photo just yesterday of a machine in the same vein.
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Re: Bradley/Whales: Ballwin, Baby Bradwin, Allwin De Luxe etc.

Post by john t peterson »

Cait001. It looks like the New York City boys just added a stain glass surround to a game that had already gone through a "Showman's paint" improvement, most likely in Britain. The style of painting on the case is very similar to other machines that have undergone the upgrade in their life in an attempt to make them look more appealing. The modification to an American penny is the other task apparently completed here. The US penny is quite small and usually has a problem tripping the ball release.

Just more proof that we Americans do love our "bling."

J Peterson
Bling-Daddy, USA
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Re: Bradley/Whales: Ballwin, Baby Bradwin, Allwin De Luxe etc.

Post by pennymachines »

Another Ballwin De Luxe
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Re: Bradley/Whales: Ballwin, Baby Bradwin, Allwin De Luxe etc.

Post by phurst »

Apologies if this has been covered elsewhere, if so, I couldn't find it. I'd like to replace the Lost/Win graphics on my Allwin De Luxe. Is there anywhere I can download and print replacements, or order a pre-printed replacement? I'm located in the US, so prefer not spending 10x the cost of the graphics on shipping.

Any assistance greatly appreciated!
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Re: Bradley/Whales: Ballwin, Baby Bradwin, Allwin De Luxe etc.

Post by treefrog »

There are a few in the Resources section. See below link:

Allwin Win - Lose decals
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