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chris roadhog
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Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2010 6:18 pm

Traveling arcade insurance

Postby chris roadhog » Mon May 14, 2012 2:39 pm

Hi,
I'm thinking of taking my machine exhibition (Old Penny Memories, Bridlington) on the road but I'm not sure how to get suitable insurance. It's a bit of a minefield - no probs getting cover at my museum premises. Any recommendations please?

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treefrog
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Location: Suffolk

Re: traveling arcade insurance

Postby treefrog » Mon May 14, 2012 6:20 pm

I am sure there are one or two on this forum with showman experience, but it may be worth giving John Morley a call. Look up his website for details. I was speaking to him about this area a few weeks ago and the complexities and ways of keeping costs down.

One area, if doing it a lot, is to become a member of the Showmans' Guild, where discounts can be obtained, but it costs a bit to join. You can at least get good pitches though...

chris roadhog
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Re: traveling arcade insurance

Postby chris roadhog » Tue May 15, 2012 7:58 am

Cheers Treefrog, I'll look him up.

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badpenny
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Re: traveling arcade insurance

Postby badpenny » Sun Mar 23, 2014 10:13 am

Find out how much on average they'd charge you, then put it in a sock under your bed.
Should you have a situation open the sock and retrieve your money.

We pay insurance companies in order to learn a thousand reasons why they aren't responsible. :dammit:

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coppinpr
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Re: Traveling arcade insurance

Postby coppinpr » Sun Mar 23, 2014 11:29 am

Everything you say here is true. Unfortunately though, lots of procedures that involve the public require insurance by law, so you have no option but to buy.

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badpenny
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Re: Traveling arcade insurance

Postby badpenny » Sun Mar 23, 2014 12:13 pm

Sure thing, third party/public liability is necessary, and should be very straight forward and only about £80.

However insuring against loss is in my view a waste, you might as well stand in a field ripping up tenners, it'd be quicker and cheaper.

Years ago when I was open and fair minded (gullible) I worked for one of the largest Insurance Companies being a door to door agent. I covered life, accident, business and house/car/personal property.
I was trained to find all and any possible reason why claims weren't to be honoured. You want to try and sleep after having told a family that has burnt their house down that the insurance you sold them is unlikely to pay out because a chip pan fire isn't an accident it's carelessness.

Interestingly they always paid out immediately on life assurance, I guess that's because most people are only insured for small amounts, have usually paid in more than their relatives will get and it's difficult to deny death has taken place when you have flies buzzing around and strange fluids leaking. However it is accurate nowadays to point out that any comment from the medical profession hinting at carelessness in the deceased's use of medication (He used to forget to take all 5 tablets every day like he should or he used to eat sugar you know?) and the insurance vultures will dismiss claims on the basis that the deceased has made no attempt to deny the accusations, and until they do .......

AND DON'T GET ME STARTED ON PET INSURANCE ...... dirtdog

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moonriver
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Re: Traveling arcade insurance

Postby moonriver » Sun Mar 23, 2014 3:55 pm

I take on board everything previously said about insurance companies and the dubious way they sometimes operate. I do however think that nowadays if you have any kind of value to your collection then you should be adequately insured as extra premium costs on your household policy are relatively cheap and far outweighed by the cost of having to replace ( if you even can) a rare or valuable machine.
In your home most contents policies usually need any single item over 2000 pounds in value to be specifically noted on the policy. I have a number of working models for example that are in my home and I have them listed individually on my household contents policy. In the event of a claim I would be entitled to the full sum insured for that particular machine or machines if they were damaged beyond economic repair, or if repairable the cost of having that done professionally . For example if there was a fire and the machines were completely destroyed then I would need to demonstrate to the loss adjuster appointed by Insurers the individual quality of my machines as we all know some are a lot better than others. Just having 'Laughing Sailor' as a description could mean a poor example ( such as the one from the recent toy museum auction), or a really nice Modern Enterprises original, or even a complete reproduction, which is why many detailed photographs inside and out are essential as these are what you will rely on to prove your point if you have to. Obviously your photographs (or a spare set of them) should be kept somewhere else!
Most loss adjusters sent to a claim will have no knowledge whatsoever of antique or collectable slot machines and will rely upon the internet to try and compare prices and value. Insurer's prime concern is to settle your claim for as little as possible.
The first thing they will do is look at their liability. Depending on the size of your potential claim determines for Insurers what response they will take, that is to say what their total potential loss might be. Bare in mind whatever they may say they are not 'there to help' and definitely not on your side!

Sorry to say but here are many ways a loss adjuster will attempt to trap you in order to avoid paying your claim. before even opening the door to him/her you should be aware that everything you say in relation to questions asked will be openly written down ( or recorded) as they go along talking with you. All aspects of the conditions and exemptions in your policy document will be thrown in to that conversation at various points to see if you have been complying to your policy conditions and if they can trip you up and you have a condition in there that you verbally admit not to keeping to then they may be able to walk away from the whole claim. You can't go back and change your mind once you have said it, its a minefield!

Your sum insured that you decide on for your machines should represent how much it would cost you to replace your machine with one as close to the one you had as possible. Remember you should be realistic yet keep in mind that the figure you come up with will only ever be the very most you can get so pitch it higher as after any negotiation from the adjuster the figure can only come down and never go up even if unexpected finished costs come out to be more ( for example the cost of having to collect or have a suitable replacement safely transported to you).
As vintage or antique machines are obviously no longer available new 'off the shelf' you should factor into your price even having to have enough replacement money to persuade some other collector to part with theirs. Never have sums insured that dont realistically represent the cost of replacement ( in order to save not paying as much premium) as then you would be underinsured and if that were to be discovered in the event of a claim, then the loss adjuster would take an average of how much you were underinsured compared to what you should have been, and that difference figure would be deducted from the final amount they paid out.
You are not allowed to replace your average condition machine for the same model in excellent condition , or for example a reproduction laughing sailor for a 1950's original sailor ( this is called betterment). If the only available replacement option was a much better one then you may be required to fund the difference.

So , provided you made it through the interrogation and still have a viable claim and Insurers accept liability then its all down to negotiation and you should know your rights. If your potential claim is over say 20,000 pounds i'd be getting my own adjuster in to assist and to counteract your Insurers adjuster. Its like a game of chess move and counter move and who their opponent is, their experience, etc. Your insurers will of course have already summed up what your financial circumstances are , where you live ( from your postcode) affluent area or not! and made parameters of what figure you are likely to accept in settlement. If they do make you an offer to settle this will usually be quite soon after they accept liability ( maybe a month or so) and they test the water with that. At that point you will decide whether to accept or say no but suggest a higher figure and settle somewhere in-between .
If that figure was ridiculously low or too low for you to accept and Insurers would not at that stage pay out higher then you would potentially have a long drawn out battle with them as time is of no object to Insures and they seek to rely on that to wear you down over time, you would need to prove your loss which is why having representation from your own adjuster ( working on a pre agreed % of recovery received say 5%) which is only any good on a higher value claim.

All in all if you have adequately insured in the event of claim you should be fine, always read your small print of your policy document in particular 'conditions' and 'exemptions' ( for example some home contents policies give an automatic 2% discount in the terms and conditions and as a condition on the policy that you are part of a neighbourhood watch scheme that you need to opt out of otherwise you agree to that condition) . A nasty little loophole for Insurers to walk away from the claim.

Having said all of that at the end of the day of course it is reassuring to know that if the worst happens and you are prepared, you wont have lost the lot . At that point if you hadnt had insurance and you were standing staring at a pile of ash it would have seemed like the cheapest thing in the world!

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moonriver
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Re: Traveling arcade insurance

Postby moonriver » Sun Mar 23, 2014 3:58 pm

sorry, got carried away typing :woops:

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badpenny
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Re: Traveling arcade insurance

Postby badpenny » Sun Mar 23, 2014 4:44 pm

........ like I said earlier, shove it in a sock.

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john t peterson
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Re: Traveling arcade insurance

Postby john t peterson » Mon Mar 24, 2014 12:55 am

Never a bad idea to take photographic/video record of your treasures. Ask your children to pause their obsessive "selfie" postings and help you with your insurance efforts. !!PHOTO!!

J Peterson
Selfless in America


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