Seven mysteries of the Saxony allwin

[john t peterson]

Richard's answer to the mystery begs the question: Assuming one could launch another ball into play before the payout was completed, so what? How would this tomfoolery work to the operator's disadvantage? Almost all the reserve games that I have seen have this blocker removed and the games play fine without it. Why design something into the game that seems to be totally unnecessary? What am I missing?

[badpenny]

Sometimes without trying it out it's not easy to foretell what might happen.

Like the motor manufacturer in the 70s that fitted a new style cruise control that switched itself off via a fibre optic channelling light from the brake bulb to a photo electric cell. Superb until the bulb blew and the hapless driver arrived at the Pearly Gates wearing a warped steering wheel.

Is it possible that if a winning ball sat in on the winning lever that raises the stop and you then got another ball in there it could jam the release allowing you to empty the tube? Perhaps someone could try it out, unfortunately mine is back to one ball play.

Just a thought, sorry but it's a habit I've gotten into and really must try and restrain myself.

[goddardr]

I agree with John, the flap's always been a bit of a mystery to me too! It is true, however, that if you keep firing the balls at one particular point in the payout routine, winning ones can occasionally jam the win-release lever, as one ball is already on the way through (if you see what I mean) so I expect it's a belt and braces job.

A couple of people have asked for pics of my machine, so I took a few on my phone - dreadful quality, but they may help for now. You can just see the blocking "flap" north east of the keyhole on the first pic.

Richard Goddard (n.b. there are two Richard Goddards on this forum. I'm the other one.....Dick Goddard as was)

[gameswat]

Found this photo showing the mech of the reserve ball allwin I restored for a friend in 2004 or so. Was in pretty much untouched original condition and you can see the wire armature that controls the ball stop flap - it's just above the payout stop armature. So the idea of the flap was definately to stop anybody playing a ball until the payout cycle was finished. And probably to stop jamming happening?

[13rebel]

According to the Samson advert of 1950 (recently posted in resources) Saxony allwins also came in a cigarette payout version.

[pennymachines]

I imagine the cigarette payout was a conversion carried out by Samsons in the 1950s.
I think we can call the 7th mystery solved - an over-engineered payout anti-jamming device.

[pennymachines]

Just dug out this page from Bolland's Amusement Machine Supply Co., Ltd. catalogue describing "Latest Improvements" to the Allwin De Luxe "B" and "C" models.

Send your old Allwins along to us, and let us quote for rebuilding them like new

[gameswat]

Just been researching something else related to these machines and came across this Allwin De-Luxe that was auctioned in 2006 from the Nic Costa collection. I can't read the award card fine print but the auction states "An Allwin de Luxe with electric shock by Max Jentzsch & Meerz, Leipzig, Germany; Copyright, Brit. Patent No. 22213/13, with seven ball release and 'Reserve' and 'Check' targets alternately on green velvet backboard in oak case with two conductor knobs, circa 1920"
The Patent number shown is really an Application number I believe, not the approved Patent, as I can't find anything about it. But the /13 should be for 1913. I wonder if all the information stated here was actually stamped onto that award card? Does anybody here know what happened to that machine or have better photos possibly?

http://www.christies.com/lotfinder/lot/ ... 52656&sid=

[john t peterson]

Gameswat,

The picture you linked from the auction is better than the two pictures of the same machine published in separate catalogs: "The Costa-Haskell Collection of early and important Coin Machines" (the original offering of the collection from the owners) and "The Nic Costa collection of Amusement Machines" which was Christie's catalog. The Christie's catalog pictures is a miniature and the Costa-Haskell picture has too much reflection for any detail.

I think the information accompanying the auction was from Nic's research rather than anything specific on the machine itself. From my perspective, it looks to be a standard German allwin reserve with an added shocker.

Keep up the good work, lad! Your enthusiasm is infectious.

J Peterson
Infection control, USA

[gameswat]

According to the flyer just a few posts above the former Costa machine is a model "C". with added token entry below the Penny entry. And states it will accept the tokens won from the machine.

[john t peterson]

I have several machines that have the double coin/token entry. Just like the typical American casinos of yore, they allow you to pump in both your hard earned money as well as your token winnings until both are all gone!

J Peterson
Investment Counselor, USA

[gameswat]

Found this French Reserve Allwin on eBay last night. Interesting how different that mech is to any others I've seen. The artwork appears to be a hand drawn replacement. Hard to tell the age though especially with the alloy castings in the mech. Can't remember if any of my pre-WW1 French roulettes had any alloy castings in them? Rare et belle Machine a bille murale Aux Veinards

[13rebel]

In Mr. Gameswat's post of 30/8/15 he expressed an interest in the whereabouts of the Nic Costa 3 Ball Reserve with shocker. I am pleased to say that I now own this machine. The patent number supplied by Costa/Christies is incorrect. Whilst faded, with the aid of a magnifying glass I could read it as follows: Brevet (French for patent) 453788/13... under which is 453789/13... under which is Brit. patent 29915/13... under which is Made in Saxony.

The British patent is the same as the first French patent, i.e. Rudolf Walther at 33 Rue de Chabrol, Paris. This refers to the method of storing and releasing balls (pallet wheel). The second French patent is the same as a British patent no. GB191329916, again R. Walther, but refers to something rather different but with a similar component. Both these Brit. patents can be viewed in the patents section in the archive section of this site.

When I got the machine the shock function was on free play, not requiring a coin or a win. The wiring appeared to be vintage as it was cloth covered single core. Whilst wanting it to be true to the original specification I found it difficult to believe the shock feature would be this way so I asked a few people for advice but nobody could come up with a definitive answer and I couldn't find any internal images of this type.* My understanding is that a stand alone shocker would have a clockwork timer at the coin entry point but there was no evidence of one on this machine so I set about revamping the wiring, keeping the existing wiring and adding a couple more wires. I used the winning ball lever as a switch.

In using the win ball lever as a switch, when the ball falls into the win tube and rests on the lever, the shocker knob is turned and you get your shock (should you want such therapy). Then turn the win knob and your token is delivered together with a free ball and any balls in the reserve. This seemed to be better game play to me. Whilst these have a reputation for being generous, because of the gallery layout once you have filled the reserve section you can the play many coins before you land in the win. As regard the flap, with the automatic feed in place I think it is very unlikely that you would be in a position where you could fire a ball before taking your token as the free ball is released at the same time as the token is delivered and the reserve ball(s) will still be held. My, my - don't I go on! Here endeth this thesis, photos hopefully to follow after I've had a lie down.

Photos of 3 Ball Reserve with shock function:

[widget2k4]

Another mystery perhaps?
Why did mine have three exit holes where all others seem to only have two?

[pennymachines]

* The mystery of the electric shock feature is solved in this thread: Electra Amuser info.

[13rebel]

I found this website from Denmark, in Danish with translation available in Google Chrome (and other browsers?). It makes reference to little known revamper G.Robinson of Coventry Road, Nuneaton, although wembleylion mentions him in his post of October 30th 2013, 'which clown'. It shows how an Allwin deluxe has been changed from an allwin reserve. Other bits and bobs on his site, e.g. bandits. www.foghandersen.com/allwin-de-luxe-skilles-ad/

[pennymachines]

Interesting website - I've put it on the Arena Euro Links page. I've also added G. Robinson, Automatic Machine Manufacturer to the Museum Makers database (along with Robinson & Co. Amusements Ltd. and Robinson Partners (London) Ltd.).

[badpenny]

I guess the photovoltaic panels on the roof helped when it was a workshop.

[shiny penny]

I wonder if another version has just appeared on ebay. The seller says that a winning shot returns the ball plus three others plus a token! Any thoughts?

[pennymachines]

I can't see the advert, but it sounds like the standard Jentzsch & Meerz Reserve Ball, i.e. Allwin de Luxe Model A referred to on page 1 of this thread. It gives you a check (token) for a win plus your ball back and the three reserve balls. The check is paid from one of the five long tubes.

Confusingly, Bollands Automatic Supply refer to the token paying game as 'B' Allwin de Luxe Check machine. They also advertised 'C' Allwin de Luxe Combination, which had an extra slot so that players could replay with any tokens they won.

13Rebel's allwin above is the 'C' Allwin de Luxe Combination with shocker feature.