Buckley Jewel Box Digger restoration

[gamblingman]

By the way... I would love to come over and take a look at it.... but the drive is just a bit too far and I think I might get wet in the process!

Gamblingman, sounds like you might need to invest in some of this product or the like, Click here for link

That looks like some great stuff!

[slotalot]

By the way... I would love to come over and take a look at it.... but the drive is just a bit too far and I think I might get wet in the process!

Well this is what happens when you go living in a foreign country ..........

[arrgee]

Stuart. I see your machines are begining to fill the lounge, how do you manage to persuade Mrs Stuart to let you?

[slotalot]

I keep moving them around,
that way she never quite knows how many I have got.

[arrgee]

A lovely digger Stuart and beautifully restored, well done

[badpenny]

Gamblingman, sounds like you might need to invest in some of this product or the like, Click here for link
Edited to add external link BP
I've had huge success with it copying some very important parts as no shrinkage in the mold. And especially when I was just visiting fellow collectors with similiar machines, I could quickly mold this stuff together (1 min) and form it over the part while still in situ on the machine (3 mins). Wait about 10 mins and then off comes a superb silicon rubber mold to use later. And not even any mold release needed unless it's a very fragile surface, then I cover with something like clingwrap first. You could prob even send some to an owner of a Jewel Box and ask them to mold it for you. Good luck.

Gameswat ....

I've been thinking about this stuff Amazing Mold Putty that you introduced to us.
I note it only takes heat up to about 200 C.
What do you use to cast the item in? I can't find anything that melts at low enough a temperature.

BP

[gameswat]

BP, I've only cold poured using these molds, usually to make resin or plaster patterns for my foundry to sand cast from. Preferably something that doesn't shrink much, though I always oversize the patterns by 7% to 10% with car filler putty or card glued on the edges to account for the metal casting shrinkage anyway. Can't tell you how many rare and valuable early machines I've seen in the states with sloppy fitting cashbox doors and trims etc! I've also re-made automaton heads straight from this silicon molding putty too.

[gamblingman]

Since you brought it up.....I am getting ready to send the buckley door pattern I made off to be casted. The guy at the foundary told me 3/16" shrinkage for every foot of material. Since this door is a little over 5 inches, I left a generous 1/8" on the inside lip all the way around.....but what you are implying is that the shrinkage is much more. You would be talking at least 3/4" per foot.....is that what you have been experiencing? Just curious as this is the first project I have sent to be casted.....It took a lot of hours, but I managed to make a dead ringer for that Jewel Box door, and I don't want it to come back unworkable.

Thanks

[slotalot]

Well done on getting the pattern sorted, do you have a photo of the pattern, I would love to see it

[badpenny]

Jewel Box Pattern

I've not put it in Resources, not likely to be needed much unless someone needs a pair, or there's a run in them.

[andydotp]

Not heard of 3D printing then chaps?
It's all the rage down here and you can set yourself up for a few grand now.
Need a part? Digitally scan it and send it to your 3D printer and it'll replicate the part to the millimetre in 3D - literally in minutes before your own eyes,,,, at home!
Then send it off for casting if the polymer thread in the printer isn't strong enough or use one of the other feeds like Titanium..
This 3D printing is the future........in medical, manufacturing, architecture, you name it.

Sorry, off topic, check it out for the machine door?
vainattempt@somethingnotsarky.p

[slotalot]

Jewel Box Pattern

I've not put it in Resources, not likely to be needed much unless someone needs a pair, or there's a run in them.

So that’s were that sock went??

[arrgee]

Not heard of 3D printing then chaps

Been around in the field of architecture for some years now but until recently was quite expensive. There are limits as with any other technology and one element is the cost effectiveness of the technology ie: the size of the finished unit against the cost. Small items still cost a few hundred quid but in time this will come down and probably be cost effective.

One down side to the process (as applied to architecture) is that as time goes on it will gradually replace the immense skill that the professional model-maker has. As has happened with computer aided design which has now virtually replaced the skills of comunication produced with pencil, pen, drawing board and tee square. I constantly see CAD drawings that may be 'practical' but have no heart or 'feeling' and lack comunication, and in fact are quite crappy. 'So what?', you may say, this is technology, and ignore it at your peril. True, but it is nevertheless sad to see human skills gradually dissappear. And I think that this rings true in the field of slot machines, especially the small scale manual production of English machines which were replaced by the then modern technology of electro-mechanical and finally fully electronic machines. Don't get me wrong, I am no Luddite, I just enjoy seeing the product of human skills.

Interesting how we as a society often eagerly embrace new ways, but still lament, and collect, the old which were a product of their own time.

[badpenny]

I expect 3D printing may well be the future and in a few years we'll wonder how we had the patience to mess about trying to make moulds. Much the same as we now question how we coped only a few years ago without digital graphics or cheap computer memory.

I can remember when RAM was £1K a Gig and had to bolt down our model 256 PCs at work otherwise next morning they'd surface in the canal minus their memory chips.

I expect quite quickly 3D printing will move on regarding cost and the ability to manufacture the item straight off as needed.

I still enjoy fettling about with needle files and taps & dies as I used to 40+ years ago in the back room of my uncle's arcade.

There is however a troublesome element as I'm sure we've all seen the video demonstrating a working firearm made by a printer.

BP

[pennymachines]

We discussed this briefly in 2010 (3D printing machine parts), but the technology has come on in leaps and bounds since then.

I'm hoping sooner or later to make a missing aluminium top flash for a wall machine this way. The idea is to make a slightly scaled-up (allowing for shrinkage) plastic copy from which to sandcast. I'm held back by having no original to scan, only a poor resolution, enlarged copy of a B/W flyer. I gave up trying to draw it in Google Sketchup but may try again using other software.

The guy at the foundary told me 3/16" shrinkage for every foot of material. Since this door is a little over 5 inches, I left a generous 1/8" on the inside lip all the way around.....but what you are implying is that the shrinkage is much more.

The shrinkage will depend on the metal used. Your caster should know what's required.
Shrinkage Allowance for Metal Casting

[gameswat]

ARRRGGHH, just lost a long reply!!
Anyway, long reply short - I think the 7% told to me by various older restorers is well oversize. I guess that includes extra oversizing for the machining specifically needed to sand cast parts which can be bloody rough sometimes. I don't mind a few spots but sometimes I've had to braze or solder the newly recast parts to fill deep voids.

Here's a cashbox door I recast a few years ago for a Challenger. Lower example has only been roughly machined and is just a smidge oversize, but you can see the added thickness to the outside edges to make sure it's a snug fit in the machine. Without an original door to compare with nobody will ever know. But on measuring, the shrinkage was very low - over 20.5" length it was only 5/16"! Compared to a Clown ball lift armature of 14" that was re-cast in brass for me years ago, which needed to be cut and filled with a spacer of between 1/2" and 5/8"! . So big differences in different foundries and metals. You should be fine as your foundry will know what they normally average on their own pours. These days I guess by experience most times, but always err on oversize.

[pennymachines]

ARRRGGHH, just lost a long reply!!

Forgive my blasphemy, but I swear by the free Lazarus Firefox add on. It's saved me so much lost-masterpiece grief. There's also a Lazarus Google Chrome add on.

[badpenny]

Thanks for re-mentioning The Lazarus add on.
You recommended it several years ago and I immediately loaded it.
I was so impressed by it that when I changed to a laptop I straight away forgot all about it.

I have cursed and bliged many a time since, so be assured one and all it is worth a shufty.

BP

[slotalot]

I was going to have a go at "backyard foundry work" myself, but kind of lost interest over time. I have just listed my home made furnace on Ebay if anyone wants to have a go https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/350788783467 ... 1558.l2649
It is new and unused..... only problem is, it is collection only from Halifax.
Might swap for something slottie related???

[gamblingman]

The only pic I have here at work was during the creation phase, and was just short of the finished product. I added the actuating arm bracket later, added a small drawer pull on top of the lip on the lid, and changed out the little hinge hardware to more in line with what was in the pictures. Those little hinges are hard to carve with all of the little curves, but I think I got close.... I'll post a pic of what comes back from the foundry. I already have the Jewel for the top, and my only real worry is the actuating arm and whether it will be in the correct spot. I don't have the roller assembly anyway, but I hope to find one or at least find one to cast somewhere along the line. I was only able to fashion the arm from photos and your sketch, so hopefully I am close. If I don't find a roller, it will never go on anyway, and the door will work the way it is. Plan "B" will be to add a switch trip on the back of the door and an electronic actuator to close the flap when the door is opened, which will re-create the process. The pictures helped out a BUNCH, especially fashioning the star on the top of the door. Thanks for all of the help.