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guyblue10
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Re: Opening an old penny arcade in the UK

Postby guyblue10 » Tue Nov 01, 2016 7:51 pm

pennymachines wrote:In practice, vintage arcades have operated gaming machines (including mechanical bandits) for many years now, without recourse to GC licensing. As far as I'm aware, this is possible because at least some local councils recognise them as primarily tourist/museum attractions, not gaming rooms.... An arcade operating machines on old coinage with a policy of not buying back the coins would seem to have a good defence against the gaming charge.


This is what I suspected and was the reason for the original questions.

We've established that you don't need an operating licence from the gambling commission if you have machines that do not offer a prize, or the prize is worth the same or less than the money paid to play the machine. If we assume that you fill your premises with old penny machines that fulfill that criteria, then it would appear to follow that you haven't actually got an arcade or family entertainment centre to apply for sui generis planning usage.

So which planning use class is required? Is it A1 "Shops and Retail Outlets", D1 "Museums/Public or Exhibition Halls", or something else? Oh, hang on, we're back to the start again!....

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moonriver
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Re: Opening an old penny arcade in the UK

Postby moonriver » Wed Nov 02, 2016 1:29 am

If such a grey area was to be utilised it would have to be ancillary to some other commercial use, rather than stand alone, to have a reasonable chance of staying unchallenged. Anyway that's the easy part. Is the intention to make money or just something to do?

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coppinpr
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Re: Opening an old penny arcade in the UK

Postby coppinpr » Wed Nov 02, 2016 11:15 am

I do know you can use A1 as one person on here has used temp empty shops for antique slots moving to another when the shop gets rented, possibly a good way to try out the idea. Did you say where you are in the UK? If so I missed it.

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arrgee
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Re: Opening an old penny arcade in the UK

Postby arrgee » Wed Nov 02, 2016 11:48 am

guyblue10 wrote:So which planning use class is required
Guy, under The Town and Country Planning (Use Classes) Order, an Arcade falls under the Use Class of 'Sui-Generis'. You cannot legitimately use a Shop for an amusement arcade, if it has an A1 use.
If you are intending to operate an arcade from premises, call your local planning office and speak with the duty planning officer. He/she will be able to give you accurate guidelines relating to the proposal and whether your requirement will be acceptable within the Local Authority Structure Plan.

There are many other considerations to take into account such as does the proposal raise any acoustic issues within the surrounding environment, display of advertisements (shopfront signs), business infrastructure levy contributions, Change of Use permission, fire regulations to name but a few. You may also require building regulation approval depending upon what is intended - you can't just open doors to the public without jumping through certain hoops.
Good luck with your venture, planning is a minefield - I have been dealing with it for over 40 years (perhaps I should say fighting it).

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coppinpr
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Re: Opening an old penny arcade in the UK

Postby coppinpr » Wed Nov 02, 2016 12:44 pm

You cannot legitimately use a Shop for an amusement arcade, if it has an A1 use.
I don't think that is valid in this case as he won't be able to open as an amusement arcade anyway because of gaming licensing. A1's can be used for temporary or permanent exhibitions and sometimes museums and often are. The thing to do is to stop thinking of the venue as a site for gaming machines and punt it as an historic living exhibition. Some areas will in fact be keen on this idea, depending on the town (touristy or not).

I'm certain we had a thread on here not long ago from someone who was operating an historic slot machine exhibition from an empty shop in a shopping centre and was looking for new premises as the shop he was in had been let to a permanent tenant but I can't find it. He would be the guy to ask.

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arrgee
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Re: Opening an old penny arcade in the UK

Postby arrgee » Wed Nov 02, 2016 2:37 pm

coppinpr wrote:A1's can be used for temporary or permanent exhibitions and sometimes museums
Not legitimately under planning law they can't coppinpr, at least for permanent exhibitions. Appropriate Use Class would be D1 (Non-residential institutions) which covers 'displaying works of art (not for sale)' also 'a public hall or exhibition hall' and 'a museum'. There are numerous other uses under D1 as well.
It is quite probable that in the cases whereby a shop has displayed or housed such items then the planners have turned a blind eye. In any case, they are probably far too busy trying to screw up decent planning applications.

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coppinpr
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Re: Opening an old penny arcade in the UK

Postby coppinpr » Wed Nov 02, 2016 3:21 pm

Perhaps the key is to declare it none permanent. :!?!:

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pennymachines
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Re: Opening an old penny arcade in the UK

Postby pennymachines » Wed Nov 02, 2016 4:38 pm

The most common scheme is to find some existing attraction, museum etc. that want a vintage arcade and let them take care of the red tape. This of course means sharing takings and not having full control of the operation.

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mei-mei
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Re: Opening an old penny arcade in the UK

Postby mei-mei » Sat Dec 24, 2016 12:14 pm

Just a thought and don't know if it is viable, but what are the practicalities of a group of members hiring a room on a pier (iconic venue for arcade machines) and placing a few machines for the public to use. Many of the piers already have licences in place and any costs could be shared. Discuss?

polaris
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Re: Opening an old penny arcade in the UK

Postby polaris » Sun May 14, 2017 10:27 pm

My local community is holding a fete soon and the organiser a friend of mine has asked if I can knock up on a small scale a stall with a handful of machines. Where does one stand with the usual legalities? Is a licence of some kind needed, public liability insurance perhaps? No idea about these things so any info much appreciated.


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