Opening an old penny arcade in the UK

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guyblue10
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Opening an old penny arcade in the UK

Post by guyblue10 »

I've just turned 50. I've started thinking about what to do in my retirement which, unfortunately, is at least 10 years away. I have been toying with opening a small old penny arcade, more to give me something to do in my dotage rather than have any great commercial ambitions.

I imagine it would work like all the rest, charging £1 for ten old pennies.

I'm finding it difficult to work out what permits/licences would be needed and would appreciate any help:

Planning permission for the premises would be required, but what classes are acceptable? Is A1 retail OK?

Gaming permits. Do you need anything? Because you're charging for coins and technically don't have the ability to win coin of the realm are any required? If so, what sort?

Public Liability Insurance - Is there a trade body that provides this to its members?

Anything else I haven't thought of?

Thanks in advance

Guy
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JC
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Re: Opening an old penny arcade in the UK

Post by JC »

The best advice you'll get......DON'T DO IT.
Think of something else to do.
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moonriver
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Re: Opening an old penny arcade in the UK

Post by moonriver »

Opening a penny arcade has been all discussed before at length on the forum.
I would agree with Jerry, don't bother unless its completely subsidised by a very high footfall successful tourist related venture and if that were so they could do it themselves anyway.
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coppinpr
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Re: Opening an old penny arcade in the UK

Post by coppinpr »

What area do you live in?
pennymachines
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Re: Opening an old penny arcade in the UK

Post by pennymachines »

Hi Guy,

Off the top of my head I can think of ten members of this forum who operate or have operated vintage amusement arcades in the UK. By all accounts it requires some determination and dedication and the rewards, for the most part, are not financial. Without these people, public awareness and appreciation of the unique delights of vintage amusements would disappear completely.

Here are a few old threads you might find helpful:
Future of Vintage Penny Arcades
Traveling arcade insurance
Something interesting on Ebay for a change
"The Lucky Coin Amusements" original 1960s arcade
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treefrog
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Re: Opening an old penny arcade in the UK

Post by treefrog »

I like many others have had pipe dreams about doing an arcade, but in reality, I have no time or energy....

most of us have considered not so much setting up a fixed arcade, but mobile stall for occasional use at fairs and functions. From my recollection without going through all the posts on this, you would not need a gaming license for this where no reward is offered. The key obstacles would be things like insurance, mainly third party liability, health and safety and general operating issues on the road, like fees, power requirements, staff to help etc etc

I have two fairground stalls a large nice Hoopla and very large side joint, both considered for this use. When speaking to a guy I bought the joint from, he operated around 10 stalls and other fairground amusements and had a good business renting out to functions, corporate events etc and said he had given up doing proper fairs as too much hassle. You have fixed fees and no hassles, except maybe dealing with drunk people at a company xmas party...

I believe you maybe able to make a living doing something like above with a variety of entertainments, but a lotta work...

By the way I loved that large arcade mr PM showed the link to "lucky coin amusements" the guy was trying sell for ages, asking lots of cash and was just too big for me....
guyblue10
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Re: Opening an old penny arcade in the UK

Post by guyblue10 »

Thanks for the replies so far.

Having read a lot more on the subject on this forum and beyond, I still have the same questions, albeit a little more refined:

Planning Usage: This would be in a permanent structure, rather than travelling. Which Planning use class is required? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planning_ ... in_England Is it A1 "Shops and Retail Outlets", D1 "Museums/Public or Exhibition Halls", or something else?

Operating Permit: The consencus on here seems to be that if the arcade has only "amusement only" machines, it doesn't need a gambling commission permit. As soon as you add a "game of chance" - something that pays out - then you do need a permit. I did find this http://www.gamblingcommission.gov.uk/Ga ... cence.aspx on the Gambling Commission site: "You do not need an operating licence from us if you have machines that do not offer a prize, or the prize is worth the same or less than the money paid to play the machine." This would appear to include most allwins and a lot of, if not most other vintage machines that only pay out the original stake.

Public Liability Insurance: Is there a trade body that provides this to its members? The Showmen's Guild was mentioned but this appears to be only for travelling operators. Are there any others that provide Public Liability Insurance for it's members?

I welcome any more comments/answers
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moonriver
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Re: Opening an old penny arcade in the UK

Post by moonriver »

Amusement arcades are a sui generis planning use, that's to say they have their own use class and therefore you have to apply for planning consent for your premises.

See 'Family Entertainment Centre'

You will find most large insurance brokers will have access to the market (even if Lloyds of London) to find specialist cover including Public Liability.
pennymachines
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Re: Opening an old penny arcade in the UK

Post by pennymachines »

guyblue10 wrote:Gambling Commission site: "You do not need an operating licence from us if you have machines that do not offer a prize, or the prize is worth the same or less than the money paid to play the machine." This would appear to include most allwins and a lot of, if not most other vintage machines that only pay out the original stake.
Actually, very few allwins only return the player's coin, and those that only pay one coin usually give another turn as well and therefore fall within the modern definition of gaming. In practice, vintage arcades have operated gaming machines (including mechanical bandits) for many years now, without recourse to GC licensing. As far as I'm aware, this is possible because at least some local councils recognise them as primarily tourist/museum attractions, not gaming rooms. Problems could arise if a nearby licensed amusement arcade took umbrage and reported you to the Gambling Commission. An arcade operating machines on old coinage with a policy of not buying back the coins would seem to have a good defence against the gaming charge. Pachinko is treated as an amusement activity by Japanese authorities because the parlours don't buy back Pachinko balls for cash (although they're exchanged for prizes and these prizes can be exchanged for cash at other premises).
jpmhotpot
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Re: Opening an old penny arcade in the UK

Post by jpmhotpot »

Go for it...... guyblue10 !!YIPPEE!!
guyblue10
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Re: Opening an old penny arcade in the UK

Post by guyblue10 »

pennymachines wrote:In practice, vintage arcades have operated gaming machines (including mechanical bandits) for many years now, without recourse to GC licensing. As far as I'm aware, this is possible because at least some local councils recognise them as primarily tourist/museum attractions, not gaming rooms.... An arcade operating machines on old coinage with a policy of not buying back the coins would seem to have a good defence against the gaming charge.


This is what I suspected and was the reason for the original questions.

We've established that you don't need an operating licence from the gambling commission if you have machines that do not offer a prize, or the prize is worth the same or less than the money paid to play the machine. If we assume that you fill your premises with old penny machines that fulfill that criteria, then it would appear to follow that you haven't actually got an arcade or family entertainment centre to apply for sui generis planning usage.

So which planning use class is required? Is it A1 "Shops and Retail Outlets", D1 "Museums/Public or Exhibition Halls", or something else? Oh, hang on, we're back to the start again!....
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moonriver
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Re: Opening an old penny arcade in the UK

Post by moonriver »

If such a grey area was to be utilised it would have to be ancillary to some other commercial use, rather than stand alone, to have a reasonable chance of staying unchallenged. Anyway that's the easy part. Is the intention to make money or just something to do?
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coppinpr
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Re: Opening an old penny arcade in the UK

Post by coppinpr »

I do know you can use A1 as one person on here has used temp empty shops for antique slots moving to another when the shop gets rented, possibly a good way to try out the idea. Did you say where you are in the UK? If so I missed it.
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arrgee
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Re: Opening an old penny arcade in the UK

Post by arrgee »

guyblue10 wrote:So which planning use class is required
Guy, under The Town and Country Planning (Use Classes) Order, an Arcade falls under the Use Class of 'Sui-Generis'. You cannot legitimately use a Shop for an amusement arcade, if it has an A1 use.
If you are intending to operate an arcade from premises, call your local planning office and speak with the duty planning officer. He/she will be able to give you accurate guidelines relating to the proposal and whether your requirement will be acceptable within the Local Authority Structure Plan.

There are many other considerations to take into account such as does the proposal raise any acoustic issues within the surrounding environment, display of advertisements (shopfront signs), business infrastructure levy contributions, Change of Use permission, fire regulations to name but a few. You may also require building regulation approval depending upon what is intended - you can't just open doors to the public without jumping through certain hoops.
Good luck with your venture, planning is a minefield - I have been dealing with it for over 40 years (perhaps I should say fighting it).
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coppinpr
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Re: Opening an old penny arcade in the UK

Post by coppinpr »

You cannot legitimately use a Shop for an amusement arcade, if it has an A1 use.
I don't think that is valid in this case as he won't be able to open as an amusement arcade anyway because of gaming licensing. A1's can be used for temporary or permanent exhibitions and sometimes museums and often are. The thing to do is to stop thinking of the venue as a site for gaming machines and punt it as an historic living exhibition. Some areas will in fact be keen on this idea, depending on the town (touristy or not).

I'm certain we had a thread on here not long ago from someone who was operating an historic slot machine exhibition from an empty shop in a shopping centre and was looking for new premises as the shop he was in had been let to a permanent tenant but I can't find it. He would be the guy to ask.
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arrgee
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Re: Opening an old penny arcade in the UK

Post by arrgee »

coppinpr wrote:A1's can be used for temporary or permanent exhibitions and sometimes museums
Not legitimately under planning law they can't coppinpr, at least for permanent exhibitions. Appropriate Use Class would be D1 (Non-residential institutions) which covers 'displaying works of art (not for sale)' also 'a public hall or exhibition hall' and 'a museum'. There are numerous other uses under D1 as well.
It is quite probable that in the cases whereby a shop has displayed or housed such items then the planners have turned a blind eye. In any case, they are probably far too busy trying to screw up decent planning applications.
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coppinpr
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Re: Opening an old penny arcade in the UK

Post by coppinpr »

Perhaps the key is to declare it none permanent. :!?!:
pennymachines
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Re: Opening an old penny arcade in the UK

Post by pennymachines »

The most common scheme is to find some existing attraction, museum etc. that want a vintage arcade and let them take care of the red tape. This of course means sharing takings and not having full control of the operation.
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mei-mei
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Re: Opening an old penny arcade in the UK

Post by mei-mei »

Just a thought and don't know if it is viable, but what are the practicalities of a group of members hiring a room on a pier (iconic venue for arcade machines) and placing a few machines for the public to use. Many of the piers already have licences in place and any costs could be shared. Discuss?
polaris
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Re: Opening an old penny arcade in the UK

Post by polaris »

My local community is holding a fete soon and the organiser a friend of mine has asked if I can knock up on a small scale a stall with a handful of machines. Where does one stand with the usual legalities? Is a licence of some kind needed, public liability insurance perhaps? No idea about these things so any info much appreciated.
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