Wonder Win and Place allwin machine

[mei-mei]

Hi, I have a bit of a technical prob with this machine. I am trying to remove the flick device, coin return cup and coin return knob so that I can send them off to be re-chromed. I have managed to dismantle most of it, but am stumped on how to remove the pins holding the shaft of the flick device and the return knob. I would really appreciate any suggestions you guys might have? Pics below, and before you say they are a bit rubbish, yes cos I haven't bought a new camera yet or a tripod!

[pennymachines]

You need to drive the taper pins out of the shafts by firmly tapping the narrow ends with a medium-sized hammer and drift punch. Straighten the narrow ends first with pliers, or hack-saw them flush with the shafts, so there's no obstruction. I usually use new taper pins when reassembling.

You can probably find a substitute for the drift punch, but it's worth acquiring a few of different sizes - nothing beats the right tool for the job.

[mei-mei]

Thanks Penny machines, understand the principle of punching it through, but one end of both pins is broken off so it is impossible to work out which is the tapered end. I gave drilling it out a cursory thought, but I can't get my drill in a good enough position to make a good job of it. The other problem is even if I can get them out, I do not have any or know where to get replacement taper pins

[pennymachines]

You should be able to see just by looking. Hack off both ends and then it should be obvious - and if it isn't, you'll soon discover which way they want to go by whacking them. Any engineers' supplier will have taper pins - they cost pennies.

You could squirt some penetrating oil at them and try again tomorrow. Drilling would be a last resort and shouldn't be necessary.

[mei-mei]

Thank you again, a trip to Screwfix maybe?

[13rebel]

I would think that Screwfix is unlikely to stock taper pins but there are loads on ebay. You could order a few different sizes just in case or a ready made mix. As Mr PM says, penetrating oil applied a few times over the course of a day and left for a day is a good way to go. If there is a stub on the broken end a cheap and cheerful digital caliper (one of those gizmos that you think you will never use again then wonder how you ever got by without one) will enable you to establish which end is thicker/thinner. My money would be on the thin end being the one that is bent over (50/50 chance, so I'm bound to be wrong). Drilling should be avoided as you will no doubt lose the taper aspect and have to use a roll pin or split pin or the like - not authentic and we wouldn't want that would we?

[mei-mei]

Thank you 13rebel helpful info. It looks like several of the original pins have already been replaced with split pins, so I'm guessing that the previous owner had similar probs with removing taper pins and maybe the reason that the remaining ones are broken. The use of my drill to get the pins out was only a passing thought as there was no way to get a decent angle to attack the hole from. I have ordered on line, the tools and pins suggested. The only other thing that would be useful is a clear photo of a complete mechanism as I am not sure if anything is missing and I can't check it out with a penny as it is seized.

[widget2k4]

Heat always works for me and a good drift punch and a good whack.

[mei-mei]

Oh yeah, my kinda DIY!

[pennymachines]

I have resorted to the drill a few times on very corroded machines where the pin seems welded in place. You do have to get the angle just right, in order to run a fine drill bit through the body of the pin, starting at the thin end. Then the pin kind of gives up, collapsing in on itself as you knock it through.

[badpenny]

I concur with my esteemed colleagues, cut them off flush, it stops any energy being dispelled in bending the end over. Also by starting off with both ends flush you'll see even minute movement which lifts the heart and encourages you to greater efforts.
Try tapping them one way and then the other. The same as dealing with stubborn screws to break the grip.
Application of heat is always a winner, unless it's in situ and surrounded by wood of course.

Plus Gas is another winner. I've been using it for over 50 years when it was only available in the airline industry and my Father used to nick it from work.

Whatever you do though, don't force it, just use a bigger hammer.

BP

[mei-mei]

Thank you Bad penny and Penny machines. As I mentioned earlier I only have sight of one end of the pin so might be a bit tricky. Also I have just spotted that one of the pin holes seems offset to the other so not a direct route through. Yep they are in situ so fire out of the question and the only gas in this house is down to the dog!

[gameswat]

Doesn't have to be fire, a heat gun held at a side angle will do wonders, even just heating the end of the rod will pass the heat on quickly. Sometimes I've had to make a makeshift protective cover out of something like off-cuts of the fibreboard used behind kitchen hotplates as a fire retardant. There is also a taper pin on the front of the game holding the handle to the shaft so is that one unmolested? I've had the exact same issue as you several times before and taking the front pin out worked fine for me.

[mei-mei]

Oh lord I hadn't even spotted that one although it is intact and not damaged in any way. In order to get it re-chromed is it necessary to remove that one too?

[13rebel]

You shouldn't need to remove the taper pin on the outside flicker handle as there shouldn't be one there. Once the inside gubbins have been removed you can pull the handle complete with spindle out.If you put some tape around the spindle and tell the nice chroming man that you don't need that bit to be chromed. [in case the chroming process increases the diameter and then wont fit through the other bits] That's what I did on one occasion and the nice man said okeedokey.

[13rebel]

Mei Mei, you mention that some of the pins have been replaced with split pins. I'm sure that you will have realised but in case not - it's okay to have a split pin in the end of the flicker spindle (as you look from the inside, the end nearest you), as this doesn't take any strain. It's merely there as a precaution against being able to pull out the assembly by naughty players. Photos to follow, fingers crossed.

[13rebel]

Not the best quality but may help you identify missing parts.

[gameswat]

You shouldn't need to remove the taper pin on the outside handle, once the inside gubbins have been removed you can pull the handle complete with spindle out.

In a perfect machine the rear taper pin is all that's needed. But I thought the problem he had was the rear taper pin was broken off and he couldn't get it out? Much easier to deal with an unmolested front pin than buggered up rear one. Then with the shaft out of the machine he'll be able to figure out how to get it out, or if it's still tightly holding the ball hammer in place then just leave it be. Though I do have to say I can't remember once in the last dozen allwins that I haven't had to taper ream the holes slightly and put a brand new slightly larger taper pin in place to remove some of the wobble.

[13rebel]

I was refering to the flicker handle as this doesn't have an outside pin but the payout knob does have one so yes it may well be easier to remove this pin.

[mei-mei]

Thank you guys and sorry not to respond sooner but have been away from the computer. Yep understand about the acceptable split pins but this machine has several others dotted about all over the place. Yes the taper pins are broken off on one side of the hole and the one on the flicker also seems to be offset so that one side does not directly line up with the other. To compound the issue it is bent over so maybe my predecessor had a go at it? Pics very clear thank you 13rebel, will be a great help when I have to reassemble. I've not used this re-chroming man before so I hope he will be helpful! Don't know how I could manage with these repairs without you guys. Thank you.