Wonder Win and Place allwin machine

[badpenny]

I concur with my esteemed colleagues, cut them off flush, it stops any energy being dispelled in bending the end over. Also by starting off with both ends flush you'll see even minute movement which lifts the heart and encourages you to greater efforts.
Try tapping them one way and then the other. The same as dealing with stubborn screws to break the grip.
Application of heat is always a winner, unless it's in situ and surrounded by wood of course.

Plus Gas is another winner. I've been using it for over 50 years when it was only available in the airline industry and my Father used to nick it from work.

Whatever you do though, don't force it, just use a bigger hammer.

BP

[mei-mei]

Thank you Bad penny and Penny machines. As I mentioned earlier I only have sight of one end of the pin so might be a bit tricky. Also I have just spotted that one of the pin holes seems offset to the other so not a direct route through. Yep they are in situ so fire out of the question and the only gas in this house is down to the dog!

[gameswat]

Doesn't have to be fire, a heat gun held at a side angle will do wonders, even just heating the end of the rod will pass the heat on quickly. Sometimes I've had to make a makeshift protective cover out of something like off-cuts of the fibreboard used behind kitchen hotplates as a fire retardant. There is also a taper pin on the front of the game holding the handle to the shaft so is that one unmolested? I've had the exact same issue as you several times before and taking the front pin out worked fine for me.

[mei-mei]

Oh lord I hadn't even spotted that one although it is intact and not damaged in any way. In order to get it re-chromed is it necessary to remove that one too?

[13rebel]

You shouldn't need to remove the taper pin on the outside flicker handle as there shouldn't be one there. Once the inside gubbins have been removed you can pull the handle complete with spindle out.If you put some tape around the spindle and tell the nice chroming man that you don't need that bit to be chromed. [in case the chroming process increases the diameter and then wont fit through the other bits] That's what I did on one occasion and the nice man said okeedokey.

[13rebel]

Mei Mei, you mention that some of the pins have been replaced with split pins. I'm sure that you will have realised but in case not - it's okay to have a split pin in the end of the flicker spindle (as you look from the inside, the end nearest you), as this doesn't take any strain. It's merely there as a precaution against being able to pull out the assembly by naughty players. Photos to follow, fingers crossed.

[13rebel]

Not the best quality but may help you identify missing parts.

[gameswat]

You shouldn't need to remove the taper pin on the outside handle, once the inside gubbins have been removed you can pull the handle complete with spindle out.

In a perfect machine the rear taper pin is all that's needed. But I thought the problem he had was the rear taper pin was broken off and he couldn't get it out? Much easier to deal with an unmolested front pin than buggered up rear one. Then with the shaft out of the machine he'll be able to figure out how to get it out, or if it's still tightly holding the ball hammer in place then just leave it be. Though I do have to say I can't remember once in the last dozen allwins that I haven't had to taper ream the holes slightly and put a brand new slightly larger taper pin in place to remove some of the wobble.

[13rebel]

I was refering to the flicker handle as this doesn't have an outside pin but the payout knob does have one so yes it may well be easier to remove this pin.

[mei-mei]

Thank you guys and sorry not to respond sooner but have been away from the computer. Yep understand about the acceptable split pins but this machine has several others dotted about all over the place. Yes the taper pins are broken off on one side of the hole and the one on the flicker also seems to be offset so that one side does not directly line up with the other. To compound the issue it is bent over so maybe my predecessor had a go at it? Pics very clear thank you 13rebel, will be a great help when I have to reassemble. I've not used this re-chroming man before so I hope he will be helpful! Don't know how I could manage with these repairs without you guys. Thank you.

[gameswat]

The flipper lever certainly does have a taper pin attaching it to the steel shaft, how else would it be attached? Rebel are you saying that Wonders cast the brass flip lever onto the steel shaft? I don't have one here currently to look at but i don't think I've ever seen an allwin done that way?

[pennymachines]

I may be wrong (I usually am)... but I think we've gone a bit too deep here. The only taper pins MM need worry about is the one holding the trigger shaft to the hammer arm and the handle shaft
to the payout crank.

[widget2k4]

I've had a wonders before where the taper pin was really hard to get out, the best thing to do is make something or get someone to help hold the door so you can get the shaft onto something solid to hit against, rather than trying to get it out without supporting the shaft. I was fortunate enough to have a big vice to hold it in, but if you could get it supported on something solid and get a good whack at it, it will definitely move, even if it's not in straight.

[13rebel]

Gameswat - I can only speak for my example but I can assure you that there is no external pin on the flicker - the outer boss sits flush with the plate and the shaft is pinned on the inside with the hammer sitting flush.

[gameswat]

I may be wrong (I usually am)... but I think we've gone a bit too deep here. The only taper pins MM need worry about is the one holding the trigger shaft to the hammer arm and the handle shaft
to the payout crank.

I've gone too deep by pointing out it will be easier to remove the external taper pin that is likely undamaged, rather than the internal screwed up one!??

Mei, as shown below on a payout knob, sometimes the outside taper pins are hard to spot because they were ground flush and obviously chromed or nickelled over. I've never seen a trigger lever that wasn't held this way though.

[mei-mei]

" The only taper pins MM need worry about is the one holding the trigger shaft to the hammer arm and the handle shaft"
Wow, how much simpler is that. I have the taper pins on the handles as shown in Gameswat email and Oh Boy are they hard to spot. What with the pitting and rust I had to take a magnifying glass to help to spot them. So basically I don't have to take out the inside gubbins at all then? Has any one of you thought about producing a basic manual for idiots like me?

[widget2k4]

Every allwin I've seen has external pins through the hammer handle like gameswat says they are normally chromed over and can't be seen easily

[gameswat]

Mei, normally the inside taper pins are the ones to remove as they originally had extra length sticking out either side of the hole for ease of repair. But in your case it seems a previous owner overly damaged the hammer pin and jammed it in place, so the outside pin will be easier. The outside pins were originally hammered into place then filed flush and plated. If you clean up the outer trigger with fine sandpaper you should easily be able to see which side is the smaller that you need to tap from. Use a punch as close as possible in size to the small end of the pin. Once you have the shaft out of the game I'd suggest you place it in a vice and have a good look at the hammer and check it doesn't wobble. Sometimes a previous owner will keep hammering the taper pin deeper to try and remove any slop caused from wear and will end up basically mushrooming or riveting the pin in place.

[mei-mei]

Hi Gameswat, yeah that pretty much describes the exact look of the pins, bent, mushroomed and broken off. Your suggestion sounds solid so as soon as I get the tools I will have a go. Ta again, MM

[13rebel]

My apologies Mei Mei for having misled you. I should have put no 'VISIBLE' pin outside. I guess I was thinking that scraping the chrome finish off to find the pin might not be something you would want to tackle. Given the issues you have with the inner pins I made an error of judgement and didn't word it as well as I might have. Sorry about that.