Win A Rowntrees Gum Allwin

[coppinpr]

the permit lasts for one year but only for that particular machine.

Only if you don't sell it - the permit ceases to exist as soon as you sell that machine.

The application form is 11 pages long, but I guess it helps keep people employed.

[shiny penny]

Does it make a difference if the machine is a jigsaw puzzle rather than a working example? Would ask where the originator found the Rowntree Gum Artwork but a bit cheeky as I am tempted to have a punt. I have been here for ten minutes rather than ten years so no surprise that the search process is a mystery. Do copyright issues prevent some entrepreneur setting up to supply suitable back and top flashes? Even if I found the necessary in Resources my technical skills would fall at the first hurdle. Perhaps more Artwork examples will turn up at auctions?

[brianh]

You only need a permit (at a cost of £25 I believe), not a licence, to sell a machine and the permit lasts for one year but only for that particular machine. Quote the number on your ebay listing and it shouldn't be thrown off.

OK I understand that, 13rebel, and thanks for clarifying but seems it would save sellers and eBay a lot of wasted time, especially with newbies like me,if eBay made that clear when listing an item. There are several allwins on eBay at the moment and few if any of these mentions a permit so presume they will suffer the same fate as me. I would have thought that any competent computer tech could arrange for an automatic alert to the seller when listing an item in the relevent categories that a permit would be required in certain circumstances. Should even be simple for the system to pick up on keywords such as allwin, slot, etc., to narrow it down? After all, I spent a good half hour in an online chat with eBay which effectively wasted their time as well.

And this is maybe me being naive but would the same rules apply if I wanted to sell via Elephant House or Coventry auctions?

" I don't see how you'll be able to go and see it.
Only a few weeks back we were discussing how eBay block you contacting the seller when asking for address or telephone numbers."

As it's collection only, badpenny, how about if I arranged cash on collection? Could then in theory decline to buy it if all the parts were not there? Just a thought!

[widget2k4]

It's all down to whether you get reported by another member or not. Ebay do not search out these items - I know that for a fact. They have to be reported to be removed. I just watched a Sega one arm bandit do its full course to the end without being removed, yet as soon as I put anything on slot related it's instantly reported and removed.

Someone the other day asked me for my phone number so he could contact me regarding an engine I was selling and I got a 7 day suspension and I never even replied to him. What the hell is ebay is playing at is beyond me.

OK rant over.

[brianh]

Hi widget - you may want a laugh at an extract from the transcript of my online chat with eBay then

01:27:45 UTC Vineet

Firstly, I would like to inform you that gaming machine listings are permitted only from licensed sellers (who mention their licence number in the listing) or if the machine is completely non-functioning and being sold only for parts in different listings.

Brian, let me share that despite the policy in place, we have detected that some sellers are breaching them. What has happened is other sellers have followed them and it has created a trend. We are now taking down necessary listings. There are no exceptions for any seller. Where it is necessary we are even restricting and suspending the sellers for the lifetime.

Please recognize that all sellers are same for eBay and any other seller is not more important to us than you.

I can assure you that our specialised team is working 24X7 on such machine listings, hence you will gradually see a decrease in the volume of such listings on the site.

Brina, I certainly understand that you have listed this machine in a good faith, i.e. for amusement only.

But please understand that we only allow slot machines with licence number

By which time I gave up and Vineet hoped I had a good day

[13rebel]

Brianh, you raised some good points there, re perhaps ebay could flag up the fact you need a licence once you have entered certain words such as slot, allwin etc. to bring it to sellers attention. Good that you have included your dialogue with ebay so that goes some way to clarifying the issue. As regard auction houses they seem to be in some way immune to the laws of permits but few people list them there as they don't like the commission charges although they can often achieve high prices. At the end of the day there are choices in which way to sell, on the Pennymachines site for example, cheap but not particularly a worldwide audience, local auction house, Coventry and Elephant house with low commission and good attendances, local paper, advertising card in the paper shop (although I know of one collector who did this and got a visit from Mr Plod and got a ticking off) etc. If you choose ebay, then get a permit. Seems to me that people that want to sell to a vast audience that is ebay and pay next to nothing for it with no permit will eventually kill it.

[gameswat]

Would ask where the originator found the Rowntree Gum Artwork but a bit cheeky as I am tempted to have a punt.

He didn't find the artwork on this site because it doesn't exist! The only version that is here is one I restored for the Ruffler and Walker machine and totally different than either of the Whales versions. I needed the Whales artwork myself several times over the years and couldn't find it anywhere on the net as of 18 months ago. I ended up converting those machines to one of the few other styles of art available.

There isn't any issue with copyright on these things.

[widget2k4]

I sat for hours doing my Fruit Gums backflash, printed it off and forgot to save it afterwards.

[coppinpr]

Do copyright issues prevent some entrepreneur setting up to supply suitable back and top flashes?

I already do
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/112622193543 ... 1555.l2649

I'm sure we don't want to get into yet another long debate on machines getting removed from Ebay but, as wiget says, machines only get removed if they get reported, and they get reported by someone who has a vested interest in stopping people from selling slots on ebay. The clearest evidence for this is that ONLY antique collectible slots get pulled (yet they are NOT usable as gambling machines). Ebay is awash with modern electric slot machines that NEVER get pulled (yet ARE usable as gambling machines).

[coppinpr]

Does it make a difference if the machine is a jigsaw puzzle rather than a working example?

Technically not, but in practice you can by saying it's a bag of spares not a dissembled machine, plus, of course, the listing has to be reported to get pulled and it's unlikely a dismantled machine will get reported.

From the Commission site with a couple of key words underlined:

If you collect gaming machines (fruit machines, slot machines) as a private individual and you want to sell, repair or maintain a single machine or part of a gaming machine, you may be able to apply for a single machine permit instead of a gaming machine technical operating licence.

[pennymachines]

I sat for hours doing my Fruit Gums backflash, printed it off and forgot to save it afterwards.

[shiny penny]

Brianh - Did you get the Win a Gum? I was tempted but discretion got the better of me!

[brianh]

I went one step further, as my curiosity got the better of me, and I was tempted to have a go so put a bid in at the last minute, but got outbid with the usual 10 secs to go and too late to up it. Not sure if I'm sad not to get it or relieved I didn't.
Would be interested to hear if anyone on the forum won it just so they can post pics when they finish the reconstruction.