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thndrr
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Re: Sega Bell Slot Lucky Devil Restoration

Postby thndrr » Sat Jan 05, 2019 10:12 pm

After circumventing the anti-check device I’m back in business. Everything on the mech is operating as expected with one exception. The BAR doesn’t hit. Melon hits without issues. All other payouts match, but with the bar payout the finger doesn't enter the first reel. Doesn’t really make sense, as melons work and they each only have one per reel and they use a different finger.

The second and third reel disc look OK, the first just looks about one position off. I’m working on cleaning my work bench off and making it a little deeper so I can get off the garage floor and get a better look at things. I’m sure I’m overlooking something simple.

Thanks for all the interest and help this far.

aristomatic
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Re: Sega Bell Slot Lucky Devil Restoration

Postby aristomatic » Sat Jan 05, 2019 11:35 pm

Can you confirm that the first steel plate that when rotated through all 20 positions only has one hole that aligns in front of the three bars vertical payout lever position? When I say this, I mean regardless of the reelstrip combination shown on the reels.

When you cycle the mechanism and manually stop it so that the hole is aligned with the bars vertical pay out lever, and anti check is not engaged, does the vertical
lever go through the aligned hole on the first plate?

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treefrog
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Re: Sega Bell Slot Lucky Devil Restoration

Postby treefrog » Sun Jan 06, 2019 1:13 am

Sounds odd, how are you testing a forced payout...? Your reel disc matches your reel strips, so if there is no hole at the correct point for bars, it must be an alignment issue

Plugged mine in and I have no idea if it's working, as I'm unclear on how to force a win on this type of system, other than keep playing until timer kicks in, unless anyone knows. !PUZZLED! I need new bulbs as they're blown, which seem to be 24v 2.8W truck type. Have not had the balls to get close with a multimeter to the transformer yet, I hate electricity. :!:

thndrr
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Re: Sega Bell Slot Lucky Devil Restoration

Postby thndrr » Sun Jan 06, 2019 5:44 am

I went through and re-indexed all the reels and everything was good. I then tried to trigger the jackpot by spinning and stopping the fan, lining up the pay, and then letting the cycle finish. It is still hanging on the BAR-BAR-BAR. It was not when I indexed the reels, but I now realize that was because I was NOT using the stop lever when I indexed them. So while it looked like the BAR-BAR-BAR was lining up, it wasn't actually in the locked position the reel would be in.

This made me start looking at the fingers, and I noticed this. The BAR finger, is not like the others, it rests higher. I assume this is not correct and the reason I am having issues.
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From the back side, it's clear the BAR finger is not like the others. It does not appear bent or damaged though.

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coppinpr
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Re: Sega Bell Slot Lucky Devil Restoration

Postby coppinpr » Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:59 am

treefrog wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 1:13 am
Plugged mine in and I have no idea if it's working, as I'm unclear on how to force a win on this type of system, other than keep playing until timer kicks in, unless anyone knows.
Tom, I don't think that payout is timer switched ON, only timer switched OFF (I could be wrong, I never had this version) but I thought it was a mechanical payout that started the feature by engaging a switch.
thndrr wrote:
Sat Jan 05, 2019 10:12 pm
The second and third reel disc looks OK, the first just looks about one position off
Do you mean one position off on the rotation or one position off in height?
If it's height then that one tall finger could be the problem. Look at the payout disc along the rotation of the BAR hole - it will show signs of the finger hitting the disc year after year. Do these marks line up with the head of the finger? If not, then that finger is not the original. If there are no wear marks on the disc on that rotation then it's never had a finger that went through that hole (unlikely).

Does this finger do any other job like activating a switch? (It still wouldn't do the job, but it's worth knowing).

One other thing, and this might be the key, forgetting the symbols on the reels for a moment, does that finger go through ANY hole on the first disc if you rotate the disc a full circle? If it never does, then it's looking like the wrong finger. If it does go through another hole what does the machine pay if anything?

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treefrog
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Re: Sega Bell Slot Lucky Devil Restoration

Postby treefrog » Sun Jan 06, 2019 3:33 pm

The fingers should be the same angle. All mine are exactly the same. I have had this on other machines before, where I have had where one finger is pointing up for no reason and had to change the finger as it's difficult to bend... odd really.

Paul, yes it is mechanical. I was unclear what the little control box does other than either timing or counting. I still have no idea even after removing the cover, a nice little coil item inside and a few capacitors and diodes, but still none the wiser. I can confirm the voltage inside of transformer is 24v and this coil has it stamped on it, as well as the finger coil and the bulbs were 24v. Problem I have is no output from transformer, so I guess it is bust and will need replacing...... So my machine will go back into storage as I was on other projects at the time and don’t want to be diverted.....

Did the worst electrical diagram below, excluding the contents on the control box. Seems that when a jackpot is triggered, either Bars or Melons, the top lower finger triggers the lower micro switch and the upper finger solenoid coil is opened that triggers a 10 coin payout. There is also a micro switch that triggers on each pull of the machine on a dummy finger (not sure why). The lights are linked to the solenoid circuit.

Should have paid more attention in my physics classes. :#:
67D5C6AE-8729-46F9-97E9-B01FF23E5F0b.jpg
409919F2-91D4-40ED-A620-2341C68F719a.jpg

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coppinpr
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Re: Sega Bell Slot Lucky Devil Restoration

Postby coppinpr » Sun Jan 06, 2019 9:38 pm

Tom, you're dead right... that is the worst wiring diagram ever. Like you electrickery is a mystery to me so your diagram makes more sense to me than the usual London Underground map that is the official wiring diagram that often comes with slot machines.

I'm guessing the dummy finger sends a pulse to the counter while the circuit is live till the correct count is reached and the circuit is cut by the counter. :!?!: Can you tell if it's a make and break switch or an ON only while pressed switch (don't know the real names)?

I've had the long finger problem (that's just asking BP to pass comment I know) in the past which is why I asked thndrr if it seems to have always been there.

Thnddr:- if it turns out to be the wrong finger, don't worry, these are VERY easy to source especially in the US.

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treefrog
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Re: Sega Bell Slot Lucky Devil Restoration

Postby treefrog » Sun Jan 06, 2019 9:54 pm

The switches are micro switches and, yes, if the switch is held down it will remain either open or closed depending on how the MS is wired in as from memory there are two contacts you can choose when wiring for open or closed. I cannot read the writing to work out which is which, but I will test at some point. Got the transformer working, so will have a play tomorrow. I think the control box must be timing based, rather than count, and maybe the adjuster controls the amount of energy stored before closing the circuit on what I think is a relay, but I could be talking b@11*cks.

thndrr
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Re: Sega Bell Slot Lucky Devil Restoration

Postby thndrr » Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:53 pm

I took some previous advice (a little bending never hurt anything) and I was able to bend it down. Mech is working like a champ now. Now that the mechanism is working good, I want to tackle the feature. Then I will disassemble and clean the entire mechanism and put it back together and begin working on the cabinet. I will need some new reel strips as well.

For the transformer, I assume its 220vac in and 24vac out as its older? 120vac to 24vac is fairly common in the states, door bells, thermostats, etc use it.

One oddity I noticed, is that the 2nd payout finger from the back (next to cherry), the one that operates the switch, closes (or opens) the switch when the Melon is on the payline, and only the Melon, not the Bar. There is a hole on the reel that triggers this. There is no other hole for this finger, only on the Melon. Reading how the feature works, I am unsure as to why this is. Could this be to interrupt the solenoid if Melon is on the line, perhaps to prevent a double payout of over 10 coins?
IMG_0590a.jpg

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coppinpr
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Re: Sega Bell Slot Lucky Devil Restoration

Postby coppinpr » Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:55 pm

Nice to know we beat the mechanical problems. !THUMBS! Now we enter the realms of electricity... and it's all guess work for me. There are lots of things that finger operated switch could be doing and only trial and error will tell (unless aristo can help, he has a way with electrics and TF will start poking at it with a metal bar I suspect). A few things it could be doing are:

Switching on the feature which is only working on Melons and not Bars as the operator didn't want the feature coming on too often;
switching off the feature, using a random Melon on the pay line to break the circuit (this could be there to override the timer thus shortening the feature run time saving the operator money and adding a random length to the feature run time. In fact it could be that the timer is only there to provide a max feature run time so it didn't go on forever if a Melon didn't come up to stop it. This sounds like overkill but, in the UK, there have in the past been laws about the max amount a jackpot/feature can pay out. The timer might have been introduced to set a definite max on the payout. As I said earlier, I had one of these without the control box, so a later addition to conform to the laws of the time? It could be, as you say, bypassing the solenoid to save a double payout.

Bottom line is, you're not going to know unless you're great at tracing the power line back through all the switches OR you put some power through the machine and do some tests, but take care, slots have a habit of making you think they are a soft touch with a transformer. I once dropped a screwdriver on a pintable transformer and it shot it up past my face and into the ceiling. :shock:


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