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treefrog
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Re: Sega Bell Slot Lucky Devil Restoration

Postby treefrog » Mon Jan 07, 2019 7:58 am

Well, I managed to take out the power to the house :!: , tripped main breakers while using multimeter live :oops: I have tested all components and wiring on the mechanism and from the transformer and got the jackpot trip properly working, which it was not, but it has not triggered thehave feature into life. So I must a problem in the control unit and this is where my ability and bravery is coming to an end. :#: Of course it would be easy for me to remove gubbins and put a jackpot back in, but I hoped to keep this one original. We will see.

I did learn something from this thread after 10 years playing with machines - what Paul pointed out earlier, the three small line up holes on the discs.... Had never noticed them, used them or even considered them, but, yes, they are exactly as suggested, line up holes and match reel strip positions on this and a couple of other machines I checked.... Well I will be blown...... :cool:

The hole you mention on finger two, I do not have for your info.....

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coppinpr
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Re: Sega Bell Slot Lucky Devil Restoration

Postby coppinpr » Mon Jan 07, 2019 9:00 am

treefrog wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 7:58 am
Well, I managed to take out the power to the house :!: , tripped main breakers while using multimeter live :oops:
Told you TF would start poking it with a metal bar. :!: :lol:

thndrr
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Re: Sega Bell Slot Lucky Devil Restoration

Postby thndrr » Mon Jan 07, 2019 2:45 pm

treefrog wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 7:58 am
The hole you mention on finger two, I do not have for your info.....
So on yours mech, finger two doesn't have any hole? That seems so odd, as it clearly actuates a microswitch. Why bother with the switch if it's always in the same state?

Does your transformer have a rating or any other markings on it? Other than the bulbs, I have no way of determining how many VA I need in the new transformer based on the load. Based on the diagram showing a 2A fuse on the primary side, I believe that means the transformer is in the range of 150VA, which seems high to modern standards for what its operating.

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coppinpr
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Re: Sega Bell Slot Lucky Devil Restoration

Postby coppinpr » Mon Jan 07, 2019 3:39 pm

I think the fact that Tom doesn't have the hole for the single melon reinforces my idea that the single melon is a possible early shut off for the feature. The hole you point out in your photo is definitely not a factory produced one (on Mills/Sega they are never round). My guess is Tom's machine simply didn't have that option and the feature ran the full time. (Not sure, but he didn't say it had the switch either).

As for the transformer..............beats me!!

thndrr
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Re: Sega Bell Slot Lucky Devil Restoration

Postby thndrr » Mon Jan 07, 2019 3:44 pm

True, I was going based on the wiring diagram, it appears to be the same. I ran a multimeter on the switch as it's currently set up and the circuit is open (no power to the solenoid) unless the Melon is on the payline. That closes the circuit between the solenoid and the control box.

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treefrog
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Re: Sega Bell Slot Lucky Devil Restoration

Postby treefrog » Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:51 pm

In terms of transformer I assume it has to be at least 50va or greater based on the 2 amp fuse. You can get multivoltage ones as well....

I do have the micro switch on the second finger as per my diagram. This is open all the time when in normal non running state and only opens when the machine is cycled and the fingers pull back. It does not need to go into any holes to operate as it appears not to work like that. As previously mentioned it must be part of the solenoid operation, but have yet to track the wiring in the control box as this would need to be stripped down...

brigham
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Re: Sega Bell Slot Lucky Devil Restoration

Postby brigham » Tue Jan 08, 2019 9:22 am

On mine, which is in a SEGA-style cabinet, the microswitch shares the CHERRY pay-out finger, but it operates every time the mech is cycled, irrespective of wins.
This is correct. The microswitch only has power when the FEATURE is in operation, and it energises the solenoid on the FEATURE pay-out finger, causing the machine to pay out 10. (the top win).
It does this every play until the FEATURE is timed-out by the capacitor-discharge circuit in the control box.
There is supposed to be a device to keep this microswitch from operating when no LUCKY DEVIL is on the first reel (one ORANGE, on mine, but a LEMON on some others). I've never seen one in place, but I'm guessing it was a pad on the payout disc which stopped the movement of the CHERRY finger before it could close the microswitch.

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treefrog
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Re: Sega Bell Slot Lucky Devil Restoration

Postby treefrog » Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:04 am

This is what I confirmed above that this switch open every operation. I only have one fruit without the devil the first item on the strip a orange. I can see a metal lump soldered to the reel disc where the micro switch finger engages. This would prevent the switch opening, although it has worn away slightly and sometimes engages. Seems crude but on this machine explains how this worked. I can see on thndrr’s machine first orange has no symbol and on the disc instead there is a hold and what looked to be screwed in maybe a washer/disc like a bug that probably held back the finger enough to keep open.......thanks for confirming the control unit as I had assumed it was based on energy stored in the capacitors that dermines the length of play. I wonder if you hit the orange the feature stops....
Anyone know if it matters which was round the wires are connected from a transformer as I know this will be 24v AC current.. !PUZZLED!

thndrr
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Re: Sega Bell Slot Lucky Devil Restoration

Postby thndrr » Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:22 pm

treefrog wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:51 pm
This is open all the time when in normal non running state and only opens when the machine is cycled and the fingers pull back.
When you say the switch is open in none run state, do you mean closed then opens when cycled and finger is pushed back (like by the orange bump)? Edit: to clarify, using open as circuit is open and interrupted, no power flow through the switch.

How mine sits now, there is no continuity (from the brains) to the solenoid while the machine is sitting or finished a cycle. This doesn't make sense to me as the solenoid is what triggers the jackpot payout, it should always have continuity to the brains (which would be powered during feature) unless no jackpot is to be paid, which with the new info on the orange makes perfect sense, there should be continuity on the wired switch terminals all the time EXCEPT when the fingers is moved further back (by a bump or pad on the reel) on an orange, signifying no payout.

Now, I can actually swivel the microswitch to make it closed while the mechanism is sitting (thus solenoid would have power when jackpot brains are on), and the orange stop would still work (and kill power too it). This makes sense too me. But if yours matches how mine was before with switch not depressed after machine cycle is done, I need to go back to the drawing board ha. The attached pics have the switch how it was, and rotated, flipping it from open to closed while machine is at rest.
IMG_2622a.jpg
IMG_2623a.jpg

brigham
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Re: Sega Bell Slot Lucky Devil Restoration

Postby brigham » Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:11 am

The switch is OPEN during rest. It closes every time the payout fingers are released, except in the single case of the 'no-devil' ORANGE, where it is kept open by an additional thickness of metal on the payout disc at that point.
The switch is wired in series with the payout solenoid. When the feature is in play, it causes the solenoid to operate the 'pay ten' vertical lever, and cause a maximum payout. It only receives power when the feature is in operation.
An interesting point about the transformer. On mine, I thought the secondary winding was open-circuit. It showed no continuity on the AVO 'ohms' setting.
BUT, I then realised that the secondary output leads were simply the ends of the winding left long, and sleeved. Of course, the wire was enamel insulated, and, scraping the enamel off showed continuity.


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