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Can anyone tell me anything about this allwin?

Posted: Thu Dec 05, 2019 7:31 pm
by pedroofn19
Topic moved - Site Admin.

I'm very new to this but I have just bought a few machines at Elephant House auction, and I was wondering if anyone can help me identify this allwin machine. It's in a bit of a state, but I bought it to restore. I have only taken pics of the door, but the case is not much bigger with no room for a cashbox door.

Re: Can anyone tell me anything about this allwin?

Posted: Thu Dec 05, 2019 9:04 pm
by pennymachines
Hi pedroofn19 and welcome.

I peered at your allwin during the sale and could not identify the maker. The stepped chrome plate which you've removed from the ball gallery I have only seen on such machines as Allwin Supreme, which I believe was made by Philip Shefras. In other respects it's like early (war time) Oliver Whales allwins, which were revamped German Allwin Deluxes. Maybe Shefras engaged in a similar practice at the same time. Many pre-war allwins were built without cashbox doors.

289.jpg
An unusual feature of your mechanism is the toothed wheel (indicated). This appears to advance every time there is a win. It looks very like Bryans variable pressure unit, which altered the tension on the firing spring. I wonder what it does on your game. Could it be something to do with a variable payout?

Re: Can anyone tell me anything about this allwin?

Posted: Fri Dec 06, 2019 12:20 am
by JC
I'd certainly agree that the ratchet wheel (arrowed by Mr P in green) is entirely commensurate with the Bryans variable pressure unit, although in this instance it doesn't appear to serve any useful purpose. However, I do note that from the many screw holes in the back-board, there are parts of the mech. missing.
The ball gallery shield would certainly indicate the same manufacturer as Supreme Cup, as mentioned by Mr P, although there are other aspects of the machine that would suggest otherwise. I also note the ratchet wheel on the payout knob, which as far as I can recall, I've never seen on a Whales allwin. So although there are some aspects of the machine that might point to Whales, I'd say not. Personally, I'd be reluctant to attribute to any particular manufacturer.

Re: Can anyone tell me anything about this allwin?

Posted: Fri Dec 06, 2019 11:53 am
by pedroofn19
Thanks for the replies, I really appreciate it. Yes you are right, at some time it must have had a variable payout. After removing the backflash ( which is hand painted ) I found the numbers 2 and 4 above the ball gallery.

IMG_8039a.jpg
The halfpipe has holes cut into four of them, so the ball will go somewhere else inside the machine, giving a different payout.

IMG_8043a.jpg
I removed the plate off of the backboard and there has been some serious alterations. Four of the ball gallery half pipes have had a piece of metal soldered over them, so that only three of them payout, I guess by a greedy arcade owner, sometime in the past. There are also thin metal plates soldered and screwed over some of the chutes where the winning ball should travel, and there are so many old screw holes in the backboard I suspect that some parts have been removed.

IMG_8042a.jpg
The toothed wheel you both commented on must have been part of the variably payout mechanism, as it has no use now.
Is it usual to have a hand painted backflash? Or could that have been put in when all the alterations were made?

Re: Can anyone tell me anything about this allwin?

Posted: Fri Dec 06, 2019 12:57 pm
by john t peterson
Good sleuthing, Pedroofin19. As you peel back the layers, the plot thickens. These allwins were work horses in the commercial trade. Many times, they changed hands over a long career, serving more than one master. Some operators were less ethical than others, altering the payouts and subverting the reward mechanisms. As for the hand painted backflash, they are the exception rather than the norm. Some were created to give a different "look" to the game or to replace a damaged one. Others may have been created to express the creativity of the operator. Personally, I like the hand painted machines very much. They offer a personal glimpse into the time of creation and help tell the story of the machine. Your backflash is a bit on the tatty side but would be worthy of an effort to clean it up in my opinion. Good job! Keep up the good work.

J Peterson
Tatty American

Re: Can anyone tell me anything about this allwin?

Posted: Fri Dec 06, 2019 1:37 pm
by pedroofn19
I will keep the backflash that came with it, and I will put it behind the one I'm replacing it with. I have taken a photo of the backflash, and my daughter is doing some work on it using Photoshop. I'm looking forward to seeing the results.

Re: Can anyone tell me anything about this allwin?

Posted: Fri Dec 06, 2019 5:21 pm
by pennymachines
Just a thought about the toothed wheel - could it have linked to a sliding gate beneath the gallery cut out 'halfpipe' ball chutes? I can imagine a fairly simple arrangement whereby a gate (which would incorporate a sliding plate indicating the different payouts above the gallery) alternated between say 2D and 4D prizes after each payout. That would be cool.