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geordy55
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Re: Jennings 8 ball special with free play feature

Postby geordy55 » Mon Jun 15, 2020 7:29 pm

badpenny wrote:
Mon Jun 15, 2020 12:26 am
I see what you're saying Dave.
But how does the player know if they have a free play? I can't see anything on the reels to tell you. The gap in the escalator only appears because you've pulled the handle.
I'm imagining you put your coin in, pull the handle, but the escalator holds your coin back. The gap appears as the cycle starts. Then you can pull it again as your previous coin comes into play. Does the beginning of the escalator swing back so the coin locator finds the coin but the grip on the chain doesn't move it?
Or does a pin hold the coin, stopping it from dropping into the escalator, while at the same time holding back the coin locator?
Or something else?
Fascinating.

BP !PUZZLED!
I was thinking that the teeth on the escalator are selectively removed or modified so that when the gap appears in the window, then there will also be a missing tooth where the coin sits meaning it will not move until the second pull of the handle.

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coppinpr
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Re: Jennings 8 Ball Special with free play feature

Postby coppinpr » Mon Jun 15, 2020 7:49 pm

I don't see why this is any different from half the "two pulls for one coin" Jennings out there. Very few use the much better system using two coin detector pin. Most have every other escalator stub removed to allow two pulls for one coin. This is not a perfect way of doing the two pull idea; the coin will sometimes jump forward and cost the player his second game, or on rare occasions, stay in place and give a third play.

This one I guess simply has random stubs removed to allow the odd surprise free play! The eight ball model is, I think, only a UK conversion which is when the converter would have introduced the random free play. If the idea (which actually is not a bad one) is to offer a surprise free play then there would be no reason to tell the player when it's coming. Just the opposite in fact. Keep them playing in hope of a free play. I did this replacement glass a year ago, and it's the same.

8 ball top start 11 A.jpg
badpenny wrote:
Mon Jun 15, 2020 12:26 am
Does the beginning of the escalator swing back so the coin locator finds the coin but the grip on the chain doesn't move it?
Or does a pin hold the coin, stopping it from dropping into the escalator, while at the same time holding back the coin locator?
It's not as complex as that. The missing stub simply runs past the coin on the second pull leaving the coin in in front of the detector pin. This is possible because, unlike the Mills escalator, the Jennings version does not work on a forward/backward motion, but is moving constantly in one direction. The coin is in fact free to move but usually does not. Like I said, it's not perfect.

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badpenny
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Re: Jennings 8 ball special with free play feature

Postby badpenny » Mon Jun 15, 2020 9:47 pm

geordy55 wrote: I was thinking that the teeth on the escalator are selectively removed or modified so that when the gap appears in the window, then there will also be a missing tooth where the coin sits meaning it will not move until the second pull of the handle.
I agree, it's the easiest and quickest way to do it as well as controlling the number of free plays per cycle of the escalator chain (1 in every 12 if that's how many tabs there are, I haven't counted).
Two things about this theory ....
* It smacks to me more of an operator kind of thing to do than a factory adjustment.
* If you're not paying attention and insert a sixpence not noticing the previous coin is still in the gate/the gap has appeared, you could jam it as our tanners are good at slipping alongside each other. And we all know what a jammed escalator does to an operator's blood pressure.

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clubconsoles
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Re: Jennings 8 Ball Special with free play feature

Postby clubconsoles » Wed Jun 17, 2020 10:22 am

coppinpr wrote:
Mon Jun 15, 2020 7:49 pm
I don't see why this is any different from half the "two pulls for one coin" Jennings out there. Very few use the much better system using two coin detector pin. Most have every other escalator stub removed to allow two pulls for one coin. This is not a perfect way of doing the two pull idea; the coin will sometimes jump forward and cost the player his second game, or on rare occasions, stay in place and give a third play.

This one I guess simply has random stubs removed to allow the odd surprise free play!

...The missing stub simply runs past the coin on the second pull leaving the coin in front of the detector pin. This is possible because, unlike the Mills escalator, the Jennings version does not work on a forward/backward motion, but is moving constantly in one direction. The coin is in fact free to move but usually does not. Like I said, it's not perfect.

Hi Coppin.
Well you are almost right except there is a little "J" shaped spring that holds the coin in place (see pic).

So this is how the free play works.
12 tabs on escalator chain and one missing, so when the missing tab is at the point when a normal tab would advance the coin this missing one skips over and leaves the coin at the sensing stage and a little J shaped spring holds it there until the normal tab advances it next pull.
Thus, every 12th pull gets a free play!
db170a6d-a3e3-4c1e-b74e-508860e098caa.jpg

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Re: Jennings 8 Ball Special with free play feature

Postby badpenny » Wed Jun 17, 2020 1:44 pm

Thanks for that.
So allowing for the fact you may not know a free play is next, and are likely to have inserted an unnecessary coin, everything is relying on the previous coin and the current one not being thin or damaged. As they are going to meet edge to edge due to gravity and nothing to separate them it would only take an overlap to jam the escalator and put it on free play.
Most of the sixpences in circulation in the 50/60s weren't uncirculated like the ones we favour now. Many of them were of high silver content and thin.

BP :!?!:

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clubconsoles
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Re: Jennings 8 Ball Special with free play feature

Postby clubconsoles » Wed Jun 17, 2020 4:44 pm

No problem BP.
So, I can see where you are coming from, but all Jennings of this era have a second coin return.
Thus, another sensor behind the coin that toggles to interrupt the coin chute to ensure any subsequent coins are returned to the little reject hole LH side of the Indian bust.

I can imagine this causing much confusion to the punters in the day, as it is easy to overlook the Gap in the escalator. You would imagine the punter having two or three coins rejected and thinking the machine was out of order and moving along to next in line resulting in poor takings for this 8 ball machine?
Perhaps that's why this is such a uncommon feature on a Jennings?
It is the only free play Jennings I have ever heard of, however love to be proved wrong on that assumption!

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coppinpr
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Re: Jennings 8 Ball Special with free play feature

Postby coppinpr » Wed Jun 17, 2020 5:07 pm

The j shaped wire is a good addition. The "two pulls" machines lack this and any extra unneeded coin kicks the first one forward, losing the player the second pull. I like the idea that the machine gives the player a coin back when it offers the player a free go. :lol:


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