Rosenfield mechanism identified in 'What the Butler Saw' case

Somebody knows... Maybe you?
geofflove
Posts: 241
Joined: Sun May 03, 2020 2:01 pm

Rosenfield mechanism identified in 'What the Butler Saw' case

Post by geofflove »

I’ve just picked this up and know absolutely nothing about these. I was told this was a ‘travelling one’ and worked on battery, but this could be rubbish. There are wires and a 5v bulb so that could suggest the battery theory. The clockwork mech appears fully working on old pennies. The case is in very good condition - so good I’m wondering if maybe the mechanism has been put in a new case at some time? The actual pictures are in a fairly poor state. Some missing and others faded and damaged. They appear to be stereoscopic images with two similar images side by side to give a 3D look.

So, does anyone know anything about this? Age? Make? Is there anywhere to source replacement or reproductions pics for it (no dodgy comments here please!) - my wife has already passed on the request to model for new ones!

All info appreciated!
Attachments
2048E6E8-FE00-4AEA-A0B0-4ABBD364F875a.jpg
0CE13427-1C55-476B-8B8F-B4823CDC3E92a.jpg
E9F94438-2BF1-44F0-9D31-31CE57B2181Aa.jpg
6BB32703-69C9-475F-962C-655448B47658a.jpg
User avatar
badpenny
Forum Moderator
Posts: 6604
Joined: Thu May 05, 2005 12:41 pm
Location: East Midlands

Re: What the butler saw - info please

Post by badpenny »

Where'd you find that photo of my Godmother? !PUZZLED!
User avatar
pennymachines
Site Admin
Posts: 5419
Joined: Wed Nov 06, 2002 12:12 am
Location: The Black Country

Re: What the Butler Saw - info please

Post by pennymachines »

I think you're right - the case is new and has been built to house an earlier mechanism. The case seems to be loosely based upon a 1950s Oliver Whales 3D stereo viewer. These have electric motors.

Your clockwork mechanism is at least a few decades earlier. Ahrens, amongst others made hand-wound stereoscopes (a few examples here).

Image
geofflove
Posts: 241
Joined: Sun May 03, 2020 2:01 pm

Re: What the Butler Saw - info please

Post by geofflove »

So I now have the mech out of the case. Anyone recognise a maker ?
All seems to work but needs new wires to the switch and light setup.

Almost half of the photo carriers are missing. Not sure if this is by design or not. Less pics but longer in each one? As indicated by the vacant holes in the wheel. It would be fairly easy to fabricate a few new ones with some sheet entail but what metal was used. It’s about 0.5 mm thick she feels very pliable. Any clues what to use?

And finally. Where to get some reproduction stereo images. I’ve seen originals available on eBay but not the right subject matter to suit the machine. I suspect these are highly collectible. Any one know or anyone selling copies? I am a photographer so I guess if I perfected the technique of shooting stereo images which doesn’t look too hard I could shoot my own and age them. Just need a model. Any volunteers?

Thanks.
Attachments
974F5C37-3BE0-4767-AE6D-D0889FB3026Da.jpg
D8064891-3147-421B-BC31-4A9780332917a.jpg
311C012D-1C72-424B-B5EB-491AF61CBA43a.jpg
63169CB5-B02C-4FE6-BDF9-0E04AA307B66a.jpg
70666AE4-0B5E-4F7D-9421-D6B0E9A4B442a.jpg
B404A55B-F58C-4DF5-91C8-BBD0F1648A65a.jpg
livinginthepast
Posts: 119
Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2007 7:17 pm

Re: What the Butler Saw - info please

Post by livinginthepast »

There is no shortage of stereoview cards on ebay covering every genre. Standard stereoview cards measure 7 inches by 3 1/2 inches and individual photos vary a bit but about 3 inches square.

Your cards look larger than this but hard to judge from your photos - so maybe you will have to make your own. Stereo cameras are often advertised for sale.
geofflove
Posts: 241
Joined: Sun May 03, 2020 2:01 pm

Re: What the Butler Saw - info please

Post by geofflove »

Thanks. I think mine are about that size. I’ve just managed to find some reasonable resolution images from an American museum site which I’ve downloaded so I’ll have a go and getting some printed up at the correct size and see how it works. I did notice that most of the images in a machine don’t seem to work very well. I tend to see two separate overlapping images rather than them into one 3d image. Apart from one which works quite well. I don’t know if it’s a prob with the focal distance if the case has been reconstructed or if it’s my eyes! I need to examine the successful image to see if there is something different about it.
User avatar
brigham
Posts: 842
Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2017 3:37 pm

Re: What the Butler Saw - info please

Post by brigham »

I can resolve the first picture easily, but only in the shot where the card is showing under the shelf in the case. On the full-size view, I just get two overlapping images.
You might be better starting from scratch, if your photographic skills are up to it. You don't need a stereo camera. You can make a sliding mount for an ordinary one, and simply take two views 3" or so apart, as long as your model keeps still.
The originals are usually too 'chubby' for my liking anyway.
User avatar
pennymachines
Site Admin
Posts: 5419
Joined: Wed Nov 06, 2002 12:12 am
Location: The Black Country

Re: What the Butler Saw - info please

Post by pennymachines »

Certainly looks like an early, very solidly built mechanism. I'm guessing British-made, but who? :!?!:
geofflove
Posts: 241
Joined: Sun May 03, 2020 2:01 pm

Re: What the Butler Saw - info please

Post by geofflove »

Yep it’s certainly solid. And I wouldn’t fancy disassembling the spring. Looks like it could do some serious damage. You need to be pretty fit just to wind it up!
geofflove
Posts: 241
Joined: Sun May 03, 2020 2:01 pm

Re: What the Butler Saw - info please

Post by geofflove »

I’ve managed to print up some images from online to replace the missing ones. However there is a problem!
The images don’t resolve into a single stereo image at the distance they are presented to the lenses. You need to hold them about 4cm further away for them to display correctly. As I think this was recased at sometime in the past I suspect someone didn’t do their homework properly.

Solutions?

There is space within the case to drop the board holding the mech lowered which would achieve the distance needed. I’d need to lengthen the coin chute and also put a new hole in the the winder (and be left with a large hole to fill).

Alternatively is there any sort of lens that I could put in front of the viewing lens to resolve the image at a closer distance. Note it’s not really a focus issue, it’s the distance at which the images merge into one.

Thoughts?
Attachments
1AFA1C1F-E9DB-4FB6-9BF7-9B03E46AEBCEa.jpg
2F3F97CD-603E-4190-8AC8-16B393EA8E4Da.jpg
CBF1A477-1259-459E-8831-D307906869FBa.jpg
43622B65-A6CC-48FB-8FCE-7392609CF381a.jpg
Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 12 guests