Rosenfield mechanism identified in 'What the Butler Saw' case

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geofflove
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Rosenfield mechanism identified in 'What the Butler Saw' case

Post by geofflove »

I’ve just picked this up and know absolutely nothing about these. I was told this was a ‘travelling one’ and worked on battery, but this could be rubbish. There are wires and a 5v bulb so that could suggest the battery theory. The clockwork mech appears fully working on old pennies. The case is in very good condition - so good I’m wondering if maybe the mechanism has been put in a new case at some time? The actual pictures are in a fairly poor state. Some missing and others faded and damaged. They appear to be stereoscopic images with two similar images side by side to give a 3D look.

So, does anyone know anything about this? Age? Make? Is there anywhere to source replacement or reproductions pics for it (no dodgy comments here please!) - my wife has already passed on the request to model for new ones!

All info appreciated!
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badpenny
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Re: What the butler saw - info please

Post by badpenny »

Where'd you find that photo of my Godmother? !PUZZLED!
pennymachines
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Re: What the Butler Saw - info please

Post by pennymachines »

I think you're right - the case is new and has been built to house an earlier mechanism. The case seems to be loosely based upon a 1950s Oliver Whales 3D stereo viewer. These have electric motors.

Your clockwork mechanism is at least a few decades earlier. Ahrens, amongst others made hand-wound stereoscopes (a few examples here).

Image
geofflove
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Re: What the Butler Saw - info please

Post by geofflove »

So I now have the mech out of the case. Anyone recognise a maker ?
All seems to work but needs new wires to the switch and light setup.

Almost half of the photo carriers are missing. Not sure if this is by design or not. Less pics but longer in each one? As indicated by the vacant holes in the wheel. It would be fairly easy to fabricate a few new ones with some sheet entail but what metal was used. It’s about 0.5 mm thick she feels very pliable. Any clues what to use?

And finally. Where to get some reproduction stereo images. I’ve seen originals available on eBay but not the right subject matter to suit the machine. I suspect these are highly collectible. Any one know or anyone selling copies? I am a photographer so I guess if I perfected the technique of shooting stereo images which doesn’t look too hard I could shoot my own and age them. Just need a model. Any volunteers?

Thanks.
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livinginthepast
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Re: What the Butler Saw - info please

Post by livinginthepast »

There is no shortage of stereoview cards on ebay covering every genre. Standard stereoview cards measure 7 inches by 3 1/2 inches and individual photos vary a bit but about 3 inches square.

Your cards look larger than this but hard to judge from your photos - so maybe you will have to make your own. Stereo cameras are often advertised for sale.
geofflove
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Re: What the Butler Saw - info please

Post by geofflove »

Thanks. I think mine are about that size. I’ve just managed to find some reasonable resolution images from an American museum site which I’ve downloaded so I’ll have a go and getting some printed up at the correct size and see how it works. I did notice that most of the images in a machine don’t seem to work very well. I tend to see two separate overlapping images rather than them into one 3d image. Apart from one which works quite well. I don’t know if it’s a prob with the focal distance if the case has been reconstructed or if it’s my eyes! I need to examine the successful image to see if there is something different about it.
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brigham
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Re: What the Butler Saw - info please

Post by brigham »

I can resolve the first picture easily, but only in the shot where the card is showing under the shelf in the case. On the full-size view, I just get two overlapping images.
You might be better starting from scratch, if your photographic skills are up to it. You don't need a stereo camera. You can make a sliding mount for an ordinary one, and simply take two views 3" or so apart, as long as your model keeps still.
The originals are usually too 'chubby' for my liking anyway.
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Re: What the Butler Saw - info please

Post by pennymachines »

Certainly looks like an early, very solidly built mechanism. I'm guessing British-made, but who? :!?!:
geofflove
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Re: What the Butler Saw - info please

Post by geofflove »

Yep it’s certainly solid. And I wouldn’t fancy disassembling the spring. Looks like it could do some serious damage. You need to be pretty fit just to wind it up!
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Re: What the Butler Saw - info please

Post by geofflove »

I’ve managed to print up some images from online to replace the missing ones. However there is a problem!
The images don’t resolve into a single stereo image at the distance they are presented to the lenses. You need to hold them about 4cm further away for them to display correctly. As I think this was recased at sometime in the past I suspect someone didn’t do their homework properly.

Solutions?

There is space within the case to drop the board holding the mech lowered which would achieve the distance needed. I’d need to lengthen the coin chute and also put a new hole in the the winder (and be left with a large hole to fill).

Alternatively is there any sort of lens that I could put in front of the viewing lens to resolve the image at a closer distance. Note it’s not really a focus issue, it’s the distance at which the images merge into one.

Thoughts?
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livinginthepast
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Re: What the Butler Saw - info please

Post by livinginthepast »

The handheld stereoscopes had a sliding card mount which you could adjust backwards and forwards to get the best position to suit your eyes. The coin operated machines I suppose used the best average position... On mine it is 7 inches between the underside of the lens and the card, but sometimes the image seems to look better if I lift my head a little!
geofflove
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Re: What the Butler Saw - info please

Post by geofflove »

Thanks. Slightly embarrassingly I’m concluding it’s my eyes! My wife sees them all fine! The design of the viewer prevents you wearing glasses which might help me!
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Re: What the Butler Saw - info please

Post by arrgee »

geofflove wrote:Slightly embarrassingly I’m concluding it’s my eyes!
You have obviously been looking at too many of these photos in the past Geoff and it's effected your eyes! :o
pennymachines
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Re: What the Butler Saw - info please

Post by pennymachines »

I had a request for restoration advice today on a Rosenfield Variscope from a museum in the Czech Republic. This prompted me to visit our Rosenfield stereo viewer topic, which shows a stereoscope mechanism very similar to yours. Serendipity! It was either a Variscope or Vaudoscope (I'm guessing the former), or another manufacturer's clone of the mechanism designed by the American Rosenfield Mfg. Co. (established in 1896 and making coin-op stereoscopes from 1899).

Rosenfield.jpg

Image
Born in California in 1867, William Rosenfield moved back east to his mother’s hometown of New York City with his family as a young boy. Mechanically adept, Rosenfield spent five years designing plumbing fittings before joining with a group of investors to establish the Amusement Machine Company in Jersey City in 1890. The company soon became one of the largest producers of trade stimulators and countertop gambling machines in the country, but by 1896 this business was starting to wane, so the founders decided it was time to cash out. Together with his sister, Bertha, and an investor named Francis Gribbins, Rosenfield raised $10,000 to establish his own maker of toys, tools, and mechanical novelties in September 1896 as the Rosenfield Manufacturing Company. Starting with the same gambling machines he had built at the Amusement Machine Company, by 1900 Rosenfield offered a full line of testers, shockers, peep shows, and vending machines and claimed to be the largest equipment manufacturer in the Eastern United States. The main driver of the company’s business, however, was the Illustrated Song Machine, which Rosenfield himself designed in 1899 and combined a Kinetoscope with a phonograph to provide a soundtrack.
Historical Interlude
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geofflove
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Re: Rosenfield mechanism identified in 'What the Butler Saw' case

Post by geofflove »

That’s really interesting! Definitely the same mech. Older than I thought.
I’ve finished working on mine now. Made 7 new carriers to replace the missing ones from brass sheet and sorted the electrics with a small bulb and battery.
Printed some pics I found online and job's a goodun!
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tim575
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Re: Rosenfield mechanism identified in 'What the Butler Saw' case

Post by tim575 »

Here is some additional reference on the Rosenfield Illustrated Song machine from ∼1905. Some internet references that there may be about 15 of these surviving. 5 were in known collections (noted in pencil with SN's on the back of one).

5 known
5 known

The one from the late Duwayne Bakke had been restored earlier by Tim F. Morsher and is now in my collection. You-tube shows the complete operation cycle of the complex mechanics. Mills made a version as well. The sound on the cylinder accompanies the stereo drop cards.

Rosenfield-Illustrated-Songa.jpg

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Re: Rosenfield mechanism identified in 'What the Butler Saw' case

Post by bryans fan »

CoNgRaTs
Marvelous! Great video thanks for posting.
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