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pennymachines
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Re: Bingolett..... help please!

Postby pennymachines » Sun Mar 13, 2011 4:33 pm

That's true, but some revampers had English glasses specially screen-printed, complete with mirroring. I think that's true of my Bingolett (compare the instruction panels with coppinpr's example). I've seen English glasses on quite a few German 50s games, but never on a Duomat for some reason. They always seem to have paper behind scratched-out instruction panels.
bing-glassCU.jpg

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gameswat
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Re: Bingolett..... help please!

Postby gameswat » Sun Mar 13, 2011 7:50 pm

PM, I can't believe a UK revamper would pay the huge expense for mirrored glasses. Most likely they just ordered a bunch of them from the maker in Germany. Or maybe a large number of machines were exported new and over the years they've made their way as spares to ex German machines? They have to start with a mirror then remove most of it before even starting to screen print paint. Even large pinball makers like Bally used to complain about the cost. And few pin makers did use them. Your glass looks exactly like mine except mine was the German language version originally. I've pretty much always found old replacement glasses are inferior in a number of ways. !! :(

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treefrog
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Re: Bingolett..... help please!

Postby treefrog » Sun Mar 13, 2011 9:08 pm

gameswat wrote:PM, I can't believe a UK revamper would pay the huge expense for mirrored glasses. Most likely they just ordered a bunch of them from the maker in Germany. Or maybe a large number of machines were exported new and over the years they've made their way as spares to ex German machines? :(
I agree, most of the Beromat machines I have are in English, including the mirror finish ones like the Primus and Exactas. Occasionally you see them with the scratched out German instructions and a paper insert. I would have thought Britain was their largest customer outside Germany and would have made them for the market as the volume would justify this

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Re: Bingolett..... help please!

Postby coppinpr » Mon Mar 14, 2011 9:57 am

If you look at the video on youtube of the Bingolett the glass on that one has the payouts correctly painted in amounts (6d 1' 3d) that look nice.

but back to questions about my machine and requests for advice.
I think the machine will work as is except for the big problem of the missing payout mech, but can anyone explane the other strange missing part just below it, (see photos below,from front and back)from photos posted by other members this part is not there on thier machines
odd1.jpg
empty bracket from inside back
this second photo seems to hint that the missing unit actually fired the ball! the partd on this side are original??
odd2.jpg
Another odd thing seems to be the original(?) parts on the back door,are these always there? the input comes into the case from above(?) then through the parts shown below,what are they?
wirein.jpg
wirein.jpg (43.35 KiB) Viewed 3301 times
just out of interest I fitted some new LED bulbs (see photo)and they seem a big improvement as they are of course cool running,long lasting and bright, (they will not fit in all the sections.
led.jpg
led.jpg (31.19 KiB) Viewed 3301 times
lastly ANYONE know where I can get the missing payout...please.. :#:

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Re: Bingolett..... help please!

Postby malcymal » Mon Mar 14, 2011 12:46 pm

I have a Rialto at home in full working order. Is this not the same machines under a different name? Not sure if I can be of assistance to you in taking pics. What I did notice straight away in the photos is the coin mech looks the same as your first photo. On the coin tube there is a pivoted wire; when the coins reach a certain height the wire goes firm and grips the coin coming into the machine, therefore the coin provides the gate to send the next coin into the cashbox (it goes right of the mech and down a little chute).

As suggested, Englishman11 is the man to talk to, as my machine came from him, albeit through a Portsmouth vendor. I paid £240 for mine in complete working order with original keys and original cashbox in situ (oh, and completely overhauled by the guru himself). It is one of my favourite machines, a keeper for sure and friends and family always flock to this machine over my others. Mine works on 20p coin but has higher payout combinations than yours: 1, 2, 2, 3, 8 and 10. Three 2s, for example, pays 8; three 1s pays 10; 123 pays 2 and 3 for the other combination (132 is it?).
Let me know if I can help in any way.
Malc.

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Re: Bingolett..... help please!

Postby davnea » Mon Mar 14, 2011 10:44 pm

Hi everyone.
Having joined the Forum a while ago I have been happy to sit back and enjoy the friendly banter bouncing back and forth. Now I feel it's time to put pen to paper as it were and to join in.
I have 2 Bingoletts and a later, variant machine called the Rialto.

One of the Bingoletts has an English glass but appears to have the original German (10pf) coin mechanism. As such it accepts both modern day 1p and 20p coins. I haven't tried it with an old sixpence but I'm sure that at the time that these machines were in use that would have been too expensive a play. So what coinage it ran on is a mystery as it won't take the 3d coin.

The other Bingolett, a 3d machine, has a German glass which has been modified as Gameswat describes by scraping off the pfennig values and pasting in English amounts based on the 3d coin. This coin adapted well to the German payout mechanism as all that was required was to raise the thickness of the area above the payout slide with a few washers to accommodate the coins extra thickness.

Now, the plot thickens! My 3rd machine, the Rialto, is a variant of the Bingolett which I picked up at the last Coventry auction. It too has the empty bracket as described in coppinpr's machine. I seem to remember reading somewhere that the Rialto, a later machine, had an automatic ball shooting feature which took over if the player was not quick enough to manually flick the lever. It seems as though there is a solenoid assembly missing from both mine and coppinpr's machine, hence the tapped holes visible on the top surface of this bracket.

The strange thing is that I didn't think this feature was fitted to the Bingolett. It's not present on either of mine, or PennyMachine's according to his picture. This leads me to believe that there has probably been a lot of cannibalizing of these machines over the years. Did the arcade owners remove these auto flick solenoids due to the public's dislike of the feature. My 2 Bingoletts without this feature have a much more precise and stronger flicking action.

As far as the original (?) parts, a primitive mains Filter is concerned, get rid of it before the capacitors expire with an almighty bang!

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Re: Bingolett..... help please!

Postby pennymachines » Sat Mar 19, 2011 8:56 pm

Hi davnea and a belated welcome to the banter.
The Bingolett was introduced in 1959, the Tivoli in 1961 and the Rialto in 1964, so perhaps the auto play mechanism was a Tivoli or Rialto "improvement" which was then applied to later made Bingoletts. As you suggest, UK operators or revampers probably removed them as troublesome or undesirable.
davnea wrote:As far as the original (?) parts, a primitive mains Filter is concerned, get rid of it before the capacitors expire with an almighty bang!
Yeah, I've been there. Nerve shattering explosion followed by cloud of toxic smoke (inappropriate allusion to Fukushima not intended).
tree-frog wrote:I agree, most of the Beromat machines I have are in English, including the mirror finish ones like the Primus and Exactas. Occasionally you see them with the scratched out German instructions and a paper insert. I would have thought Britain was their largest customer outside Germany and would have made them for the market as the volume would justify this.
I don't think Britain was a significant customer for any of these post-war manufacturers. The German three year licensing rule (gaming machines could not be licensed after this period in service and therefore had to be scrapped or shipped) meant the UK market was almost entirely confined to the abundant and very cheap used machines. It made no economic sense for Wulff to manufacture for the UK while there was a glut of dirt cheap but perfectly serviceable used machines available for export.
gameswat wrote:I can't believe a UK revamper would pay the huge expense for mirrored glasses. Most likely they just ordered a bunch of them from the maker in Germany. Or maybe a large number of machines were exported new and over the years they've made their way as spares to ex German machines?

As I say, I see no evidence they were ever made specifically for the UK. The clear proof of this is that, although there are German games with purpose-made Anglicized mirror glasses, they never have manufacturer-original English coin gear. If they were built for the UK, they would have Wulff-made old penny coin slides. I've never seen the like.

I agree it's impressive that someone went to the trouble of making English glasses, but presumably they can't have been too prohibitive in the 50-60s, otherwise mirror glassses wouldn't be on so many fairly low-budget wall machines. I suppose Wulff could have made them for supply to UK revampers of their old machines, but it seems more likely they were made here. For one thing, it would probably have worked out cheaper; if they were made in Germany, there would be the added shipping cost.

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Re: Bingolett..... help please!

Postby gameswat » Sun Mar 20, 2011 5:34 pm

I'm still of the belief that if the glasses had been copied in the UK they'd never have never bothered with mirroring them and that they'd be noticeably inferior to the originals.The cost of preparing silk screens alone was a large up front expense. And just look at the quality of British allwin backflashes, every one I've ever seen has been a pretty low quality screen print with registration all over the place usually. So my call is this, back in the early 60s if I was importing large quantities of second hand machines from Europe that were only three years old, first thing I would do is contact the factory that made said machines and ask them for English language glasses. Surely they were exporting some new machines to English language countries? Or if not then I'm sure Wulff could have set up for English language artwork quite quickly for a much lower price than a quality sign company doing the same from scratch in the UK. And the cost of trucking a crate of say 100 packed glasses would not bust anybodies bank.

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Re: Bingolett..... help please!

Postby pennymachines » Sun Mar 20, 2011 9:00 pm

I take your point about the less-than-stellar backflashes on allwins but British electro-mechanical wall machines of the same period have some pretty fancy glasses. The Bingola, Electrodart, etc. have some very nice screen printing and I believe the various Jamieson betting games (Top Ten, etc.) have mirror printing too. However, if everything but the English and German lettering is absolutely identical, it would support your theory. Anyone in a position to compare?

I have an old Amusement Equipment Company Ltd. brochure which includes a full range of these "second-to-none reconditioned" German machines with English glasses. It says, "AMECO machines are overhauled in their own workshops by their own skilled staff and when it comes to conversion Amusement Equipment really score again, for AMECO conversions are complete rebuilds." As you suggest, Wulff could have screen printed English glasses and exported them for converting their old machines, but equally, as a major manufacturer, servicer and supplier of spares from 1932, AMECO were equipped to do the job themselves. If only someone would say, Ich erinnere mich an die Herstellung dieser Dinge! or I remember manufacturing those things!

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Re: Bingolett..... help please!

Postby gameswat » Mon Mar 21, 2011 8:00 am

One of the reasons I'm so sure these are factory glasses is that today even with digital imagery and computers to speed up the graphic work I've barely ever seen an exact reproduced backglass. I have a modern repro Ten Strike glass from Mayfair Amusements which does look close but the colors are off, especially with what should be bright red but looks dark maroon. And it's a slow and very time consuming job to break down each screened color from existing artwork. The problem is that pretty much other than the black outline all the colors need to be slightly larger than what you see from the front, that way there are no missed spots of that color if the registration is off by a smidgen. And often two colors will blend with one another to make a third.
The reason I purchased my Bingolette in the first place, (a little too modern for what I usually like) was because of the great looking backglass, the mirroring really does look expensive and steps this machine right up in my view.


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