Bell Fruit "Flowers Brewery" slot machine

[jonesthegarage]

First class job Paul, good for another 60 years.

[coppinpr]

Topic moved & merged - Site Admin.

Can some expert help me understand the wiring on this machine. It's all very simple and doesn't actually do very much but although I can see what it does, I can't quite understand how it does it, in as much as getting any power to the right place.

This machine is 95% mechanical, the power handles only the top box light, another light whose tube is missing and I can't place, and the very simple jackpot system.

As for the jackpot, I'm assuming the power arrives on the mech via a socket then supplies 240v to the slide solenoid (as it's rated 240v on it), the switch on the mechanical slides completes the circuit to the solenoid, fires the slide, pays the token, then the other switch near the clock switches off the solenoid, completing the cycle. If I'm wrong here, please tell me!

Now what I can't understand is how the correct power gets to the JP system. The power comes in via the cable shown in photo 1 and goes to the junction/fusebox next to the choke unit (one small length of black wire cut off can be seen leaving this junction box at the top of entry 2 of the connector strip). It then seems to go to the said choke and to another choke in the top box (this second tube is working) but then I'm lost. It seems to go to the socket fixed to the machine case (see photo) but this is just a two pin round hole socket. The plug on the mech (seen in photo 2 resting on top of the jackpot tube) is a four pin square pin plug, in the right place to connect to the socket but clearly not correct. This plug leads directly to the jp electrics only. There is no sign of any wiring leading to the second, missing tube light.

So questions are, how do I get the correct power to the JP system, where was the second tube, and why no wiring for it from the choke? (Yet there is wiring both in and out of the choke which seems to go the socket). Should it be 240v direct to that solenoid/switch system? How do I deal with a four square pin plug facing a two pin round pin socket? I have a new connector but how or even should I attach it?
Help please, I'm OK with electrics but only if I'm sure of what I'm looking at.
Thanks...

[coppinpr]

Can NO one help with my eletrickery problem? I'm surprised!!

[badpenny]

Paul ....

Can you ......
Show a picture of the switch etc that is operated by the clock?
Confirm the wire colours at the back and slip back the cover on the four pin plug to show the colours there?

BP

[coppinpr]

Machine at work, me at home till Thursday (the glories of semi retirement) so will do on Thursday.

[coppinpr]

Right BP,here are the details for you to work your electrickery on.
The mech plug shown below has four numbered pins ,1. is pink, 2. is blue 3.is orange 4. is not used

the clock switch has two wires = white and pink

the solenoid has two wires = orange and black

the jack pot switch has two wires = orange and white

the connector block in the case is (as seen below) 1= power in blue 2= earth (I think, as it looks greenish and is cut off,see arrow) 3=power in brown 4.power out to lights (2) both pink 5.= power out to lights (2) both black 6. is not in use the fuse is 5amp

Im guessing Im missing all the wiring from the connector box to the jack pot system, Im happy with the lighting wiring as one works (top box) and the other is missing the tube which suits me as the belly glass will not look good now with a new light. just want to get the JP working.

[badpenny]

Firstly you're obviously going to have to change the internal plug and socket so they're the same profile.
Squares into rounds just ain't going to do it.

I would then use a simple continuity tester to identify the positive and negative wires as they appear inside the cabinet.
For anyone who doesn't have one or finds multi-meters too fussy This is a cheap jobby that will suffice.
Alternatively it's easy to make one with a small battery, bulb and wires.

When the bulb lights you know the circuit is complete, so can identify which is pos or neg

Looking at the circuit that fuels the JP I'd suggest rewiring with similar gauge wire as follows ......

Using same gauge wire replace the missing wiring accordingly.

The connector block would benefit from being replaced it looks cracked and could cause other problems eventually.

I'd also attach an earth wire to the mechanism chassis and run it through to the earth pin on the plug.

In the event that the continuity tester doesn't prove that the fuse at the connector block is still in the line or you do change the connector block I'd place one in line, as well for protection sake.

I hope that helps.

[coppinpr]

Thanks BP, that's brilliant, loads of help. I have a tester and I've already got a connector ready to replace the old. I'm not good at electrics and although I think I can see the logic please talk me through the circuit.
Correct me please as I think I'm seeing it wrong.

Power + comes in and goes to the clock switch,
power continues to the JP switch,
then on to the self energising relay. (Question - do I have this relay in place as part of the current system or do I need to get one?)
The power then continues on through the solenoid to to the neg -.

I don't understand the other branch that seems to go directly to the neg bypassing the switches. Are you saying the self-energising switch switches the power either through the clock and jp switches or misses them out depending on if it's on or off?
Sorry if this is foolish, but as we are always saying on the forum take no chances with 240v in a machine.

[badpenny]

Firstly the circuit.

Power comes in at + goes through the connector block and gets as far as the switch behind the clock (A) .
With the machine at rest that switch is open.
The power also gets as far as the switch side of the self energising relay (B), this switch is also open so the power gets no further at this point.

When you play the clock activated switch(A) will close and stay closed until the cycle finishes (the clock returning to rest reopens it) During play the power now gets as far as the next switch (C) which is attached to the slide and is normally open.

If you win a token the action of the mechanical slide closes this second switch (C) which allows power to get to the self energising relay(B), as this energises and locks on it closes the switch side of the relay (D) and allows power to the solenoid that releases the token.

The mechanical cycle finishes and when the clock has wound down it reopens the switch and cuts of the power to the relay which releases and the payout solenoid returns to rest, ready for the next game.

Same as before but now with Letters

As to whether you need to fit a relay with a self energising field. As you've pointed out that circuit has been removed you may well be right. Sometimes they are slaved onto the side of the solenoid they act upon in which case you'll be ok, however you would see additional connections.

Stuartapotaslot is the best person I know for confirming that, in the meantime I'll search through the tea chests of electrical do'hickies I got from dassav when he unloaded them last year.

Also if anyone can see a problem with my understanding of the above for gawd's sake shout out. I know there are many more out there who know more than I do. Don't stay quiet, share your knowledge.

BP

[slotalot]

Stuartapotaslot is the best person I know for confirming that, BP

Thanks for the vote of confidence BP
It is always difficult to try and workout what is happening with a machines wiring without having it sat in front of you BUT! from what I can see here in BPs drawing it should work just fine.

[coppinpr]

Thanks lads (lads in the loosest possible sense) I think I understand the theory now, Its the self acting switch that still confuses me in as much as the wiring on the mech is complete,no part is missing ,no connectors are empty, no wires cut, yet I can see no self acting switch? Also ,(im at home now and machine at work so cant check yet) Am I right in thinking the three wires shown on the mech plug are +, -,and earth? if so why would they be pink, blue and orange? how do I know which is which?

[badpenny]

Never assume anything unless it's to do with a man being in the wrong where a woman is concerned.

The wire colours are meaningless.
The continuity tester I suggested could tell you if one is earth if you can complete a circuit between one of them and the chassis then that one's earth for sure.

I guess the circuit I've suggested is for creating a working alternative to whatever had been there before. Like Big S says without it in front of me it's not easy to know what can or can not still be utilised.
I'd only have faith in the two switches and the solenoid. So my circuit if added to the known switches etc, are (I think) the way forward. Cut away the existing bits of wire they're not helping especially if we don't know if one of them might be an earth.

Later I'll brave the spiders in the outhouse and see if if I can find a relay.

BP

[aristomatic]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Flowers-Brewe ... 19e893416e

[badpenny]

Due to it being dark and the spiders large, I've had a rethunk ........ strikes me it will still work if you don't use a relay so long as there is no time overlap between the clock switch closing and the slide being reset after a winning game otherwise another token will be paid out as you pull the handle on the next game.
Still it's worth a try and makes it simpler to wire up ...........

Without a relay.

[coppinpr]

Thats exactly what I was hoping you would come up with when I first put the question,just didnt trust myself with the electrickery, thanks very much....now I do have this aristo nevada with the JP switches removed.....dont go away Ill get some photos

[steinslots]

For goodness sake people - make sure none of those mains connections are exposed. It only takes a coin to short out the mains to the case and you're looking at a potentially lethal accident.
I find whenever mains is involved on a machine of this age which is going to be played a lot that it's better to rewire the whole thing, and with a decent earth connection too. This is particularly important if the machine is to be used by the public.

Also check the circuits to the flo-lights, especially around the hinges, for wires which may come loose, and those lamp connectors were notorious for falling apart.

I realise that this is easier said than done for most people of non-electrical background, and being a qualified tester I'm biased towards electrical safety but I'm just pointing out the risks.

And.....be careful in there!

[coppinpr]

This is exactly why I posted this thread in the first place, I wanted ALL the info and advice and safety warnings I could get before trying anything and that is what I got thanks to Slot and BP,this forum at its best.
I have checked all the wiring and it is in excellent condition but even so I will only be using the part of it that is on the mech (downstream of the plug on the mech) I will replace that part coming into the machine,leading to the lights and leading to the mech,so, Slot, can I ask your advice, The cable entering the machine LOOKS to be original but is only two core, I shall replace this with standard three core can you tell me how to attach the earth correctly to the case(?) the mech(?) both (?) bearing in mind the photos above and the latest wiring suggested by BP (and favoured by me).
As previously mentioned there is a wire on the case connector block cut off, is this a former earth? also there are three wires picking up on the mech plug one of these is an earth I believe,do you agree? if so I can find out which by making a DC circuit with a tester as suggested by BP can you confirm how I do this, thanks for your help.

[badpenny]

Prime for a Steampunk conversion eh Carl?

[glittering-prize67]

Excellent job, love to see good work. Well done that man. Now I'm off to see how you did that glass. Very interesting, good stuff.

[malcymal]

I like the style of this machine a lot. How are you getting on with it now?