Roto-Pool, Roto-Fruit, Rotolite, Electrodart, Bingola, etc.
- operator bell
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After tracking down the original auction pictures, I see it has two Post Office uniselectors and some PO-3000 relays. These normally all run at a standard 50VDC, so logically (since I see no reservoir capacitor) the transformer should be putting around 50V on the rectifier.
The lamps will not be anywhere near 50V. I would put money on it that they're standard 6.3V, in which case the transformer is probably not CENTER tapped, but tapped 0 - 6 - 50 (or 6 - 0 - 50). This was common for pinball and other amusement machines of the period that used 50V AC for motors and solenoids and 6V AC for the lamps.
I think you will find the relays and solenoids are driven off the two wires at the top of the rectifier, and the lamps are driven off the transformer tap and that extra blue wire I see on the bottom right of the rectifier.
The lamps will not be anywhere near 50V. I would put money on it that they're standard 6.3V, in which case the transformer is probably not CENTER tapped, but tapped 0 - 6 - 50 (or 6 - 0 - 50). This was common for pinball and other amusement machines of the period that used 50V AC for motors and solenoids and 6V AC for the lamps.
I think you will find the relays and solenoids are driven off the two wires at the top of the rectifier, and the lamps are driven off the transformer tap and that extra blue wire I see on the bottom right of the rectifier.
Thanks for that info. I didn't realise that the machine had uniselectors. I had heard of them but not seen one. Do they click round with a trigger from another relay or do they rotate when a supply is applied? I have not seen one of these machines working so half the battle is to work out what is supposed to happen then you have a chance of fixing it......!! I can see me spending a few hours drawing the circuit out...yuk.
Stoxman
Stoxman
- operator bell
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You can see by looking at them, but I'll describe them for everyone else. There's a semicircular bank of several rows of 25 contacts, with a shaft up the middle carrying contact wipers for each level and a ratchet to turn the shaft. There's a magnet coil on the side frame, left in the picture, with a rocking armature attached to a claw and various springs. The claw rests on the ratchet in the middle. When you apply power to the magnet, the armature pulls in against a powerful spring and the claw clicks over one tooth of the ratchet. When you take power off again, the spring pulls the claw back and turns the ratchet, turning the contact wipers which move to the next contact around on each row.
Resting on the armature is a closed contact. When the armature pulls in, it opens this contact. So if you connect 50V to the coil through the contact, the armature pulls in and breaks the contact, then drops out again because it no longer has power, which closes the contact; and the whole thing repeats, driving the wipers round at about 20 steps a second. In the telephone exchange every subscriber line would have one of these selectors, and when you picked up your phone, your selector would go into this mode and run round its contacts looking for a free exchange line. In the Rotalite, each selector will free run for some random period, probably each controlled by one of the relays. If you poke around in there, press the little rocker at the free end of the relay to close it. 50V won't hurt you. Warning: when the uniselectors run they are VERY LOUD, especially mounted on a wooden board like that. It does no harm but it's startling when it's unexpected, and you can hurt yourself when you jump back in surprise.
The circuit should be very easy to trace. There will be three parts. First, the controls, taking in the relays, selectors and coin parts. Second, the combination logic, consisting of wires running between one row of each selector. Third, the lamp wiring, coming off another row on each selector. The lamp wiring will be entirely separate from the rest, with no connection except through the big blue rectifier.
Resting on the armature is a closed contact. When the armature pulls in, it opens this contact. So if you connect 50V to the coil through the contact, the armature pulls in and breaks the contact, then drops out again because it no longer has power, which closes the contact; and the whole thing repeats, driving the wipers round at about 20 steps a second. In the telephone exchange every subscriber line would have one of these selectors, and when you picked up your phone, your selector would go into this mode and run round its contacts looking for a free exchange line. In the Rotalite, each selector will free run for some random period, probably each controlled by one of the relays. If you poke around in there, press the little rocker at the free end of the relay to close it. 50V won't hurt you. Warning: when the uniselectors run they are VERY LOUD, especially mounted on a wooden board like that. It does no harm but it's startling when it's unexpected, and you can hurt yourself when you jump back in surprise.
The circuit should be very easy to trace. There will be three parts. First, the controls, taking in the relays, selectors and coin parts. Second, the combination logic, consisting of wires running between one row of each selector. Third, the lamp wiring, coming off another row on each selector. The lamp wiring will be entirely separate from the rest, with no connection except through the big blue rectifier.
Right I am getting desperate..... The transformer has burnt out there are wires off and some different coloured wires taped together, now I find the coil of one of the uni-selectors is burnt out also. I NEED a schematic and can anyone tell me where to get a uni-selector.
Slotalot's Roto Pool Wiring Diagram now in Resources - Site Admin.
Slotalot's Roto Pool Wiring Diagram now in Resources - Site Admin.
- operator bell
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Re: Rotolite help
I have a Rotolite machine, I have not plugged it in for over 2 years but it was working last time I tried it. I can see you live in Cheshire, I live in Dukinfield near Ashton Under Lyne /Hyde. If it will help you, I am off work this week until march 30th 2008. I will bring it to you. I can not help in any other way as I don’t understand the working of it.
Ps. I don’t want to sell it.
ed.
Ps. I don’t want to sell it.
ed.
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What's missing from this picture?
Hello Everyone,
This is the inside of my (sadly not working) Rotofruit.
If you're familiar with this type of machine - I believe the Electrodart, Rotolite and Bingola may be similar - then you will notice it's the area inside the main cabinet just above the entry to the cash box.
Please can any one tell me what should be where the three screws are? there are also 3 unconnected wires heading in that direction. Has anyone any idea what's missing? And if what's missing is original or a later addition?
Also any information at all on the operation or component details of any of the above machines would be greatly appreciated. Especially welcome are offers to sell me wiring diagrams - whether drawn up by you, a friend or copied from the original rocking-horse manure itself.
Slotalot's Roto Pool Wiring Diagram now in Resources - Site Admin.
Can anyone confirm how the Rotofruit worked visually? I am guessing from my machine that three adjacent lamps were lit at once - they then travelled around the playfield and stopped together showing three lighted symbols: in other words there was one cycle of three lit lamps and not three cycles of one lit lamp. Can anyone confirm this please as I have never seen one working.
Many thanks,
Becky.
This is the inside of my (sadly not working) Rotofruit.
If you're familiar with this type of machine - I believe the Electrodart, Rotolite and Bingola may be similar - then you will notice it's the area inside the main cabinet just above the entry to the cash box.
Please can any one tell me what should be where the three screws are? there are also 3 unconnected wires heading in that direction. Has anyone any idea what's missing? And if what's missing is original or a later addition?
Also any information at all on the operation or component details of any of the above machines would be greatly appreciated. Especially welcome are offers to sell me wiring diagrams - whether drawn up by you, a friend or copied from the original rocking-horse manure itself.
Slotalot's Roto Pool Wiring Diagram now in Resources - Site Admin.
Can anyone confirm how the Rotofruit worked visually? I am guessing from my machine that three adjacent lamps were lit at once - they then travelled around the playfield and stopped together showing three lighted symbols: in other words there was one cycle of three lit lamps and not three cycles of one lit lamp. Can anyone confirm this please as I have never seen one working.
Many thanks,
Becky.
- operator bell
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Re: What's missing from this picture?
Hi Becky, since nobody else replied to you yet I suppose I may as well, though I don't have the info you need. There have been other Rotofruit inquiries here in the past eg this one which you have presumably already read, since I expect you arrived here after a google search. Regrettably, nobody posted a full picture of the insides from which we could identify your missing part. Perhaps if one of the other Rotofruit/Electrodart owners reads this they might take the hint. None of the other owners seems to have found a diagram yet. It's a pity I live so far away, as if I could get my hands on one for a few hours I'd be happy to trace it out. I've reverse-engineered much more complicated games than this.
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Re: What's missing from this picture?
Hello, Thanks for the reply.
I thought the wiring diagram was a long shot and that I would end up putting the work in myself - oh well can't blame me for looking for short-cuts.
Still keeping my fingers crossed that someone will let me know if they have any ideas what’s missing.
Have perused these pages for quite a long time before I finally plucked up the courage to speak up - and my dad is a magazine subscriber (and was of a previous incarnation - that's a previous mag not a previous dad) but you are right - as I don't speak German Google-ing 'rotofruit' only leads me here (and what a great place to be).
Thanks again Becky.
I thought the wiring diagram was a long shot and that I would end up putting the work in myself - oh well can't blame me for looking for short-cuts.
Still keeping my fingers crossed that someone will let me know if they have any ideas what’s missing.
Have perused these pages for quite a long time before I finally plucked up the courage to speak up - and my dad is a magazine subscriber (and was of a previous incarnation - that's a previous mag not a previous dad) but you are right - as I don't speak German Google-ing 'rotofruit' only leads me here (and what a great place to be).
Thanks again Becky.
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Re: What's missing from this picture?
You could try posting on a German site, using freetranslations.com I've used it for communicating with French, German and Spanish ebayers and is surprising how you get by, they sort of get the idea. Just use as many simple English words as you can when you use it.
I will try it for you. "Can you tell me what is missing from this picture?" = Können Sie mich was verpasst von diesem Bild erzählen“?
Reversing the translation German to English, it comes back "You can tell me what missed of this picture "? oh and say "Vielen Dank" thank you.
Good luck
I will try it for you. "Can you tell me what is missing from this picture?" = Können Sie mich was verpasst von diesem Bild erzählen“?
Reversing the translation German to English, it comes back "You can tell me what missed of this picture "? oh and say "Vielen Dank" thank you.
Good luck
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Re: What's missing from this picture?
Yes - not too much help from Germany -
They do seem to have a fantastic machine also called a Rotofruit but as it's some kind of enormous tractor based harvesting device. I have decided not to ask them for help just yet.
They do seem to have a fantastic machine also called a Rotofruit but as it's some kind of enormous tractor based harvesting device. I have decided not to ask them for help just yet.
Re: What's missing from this picture?
Here we are!
I took some pictures of a working Rotolite last week, (thanks bits & bats), to help me re-wire the one I have in my collection. My first thought is they are a current overload but I have never seen a 3 wire version so don't bank on that. I won't be getting round to starting mine for a few weeks as I have another project ongoing. If I figure them out I will post it here, unless someone knows what they are here on the forum.
Stoxman
I took some pictures of a working Rotolite last week, (thanks bits & bats), to help me re-wire the one I have in my collection. My first thought is they are a current overload but I have never seen a 3 wire version so don't bank on that. I won't be getting round to starting mine for a few weeks as I have another project ongoing. If I figure them out I will post it here, unless someone knows what they are here on the forum.
Stoxman
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Re: What's missing from this picture?
Thanks Stoxman,
That is a great help - good luck with your Rotolite and I'd love to hear how it goes.
Now I've seen them in situ I recognise them from the Electrodart post that Bell linked to in his reply above. Will have to have a good few days to ponder these, as that post seemed to hint at these being pretty unobtainable and not replaceable with a modern component. Not giving up though.
Becky.
That is a great help - good luck with your Rotolite and I'd love to hear how it goes.
Now I've seen them in situ I recognise them from the Electrodart post that Bell linked to in his reply above. Will have to have a good few days to ponder these, as that post seemed to hint at these being pretty unobtainable and not replaceable with a modern component. Not giving up though.
Becky.
Last edited by Rotomole on Sun Apr 13, 2008 7:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- operator bell
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Re: What's missing from this picture?
I'm sitting here studying those things and somehow I don't think they're overload cutouts - I think they're oscillators, like old fashioned car flasher units. They click on and off to generate pulses for the steppers and payout circuits. That means we could make a modern electronic replacement with one chip and a relay. Heck, we could even make a "steampunk" version where the electronics are hidden by bakelite and brass, for purists. But in order to do that I would need a schematic.
Re: What's missing from this picture?
I like the idea of steppers. I may have to go back to the one I photographed and watch them while it is playing.
- operator bell
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Re: What's missing from this picture?
Would you? I think that's a wonderful idea. One may be for the payout solenoid and tick about 3-5 times a second, the other may either tick quite fast (10 a second) for the main stepper or else be a long timer for the game period.stoxman wrote:I may have to go back to the one I photographed and watch them while it is playing.
The three contacts, from the top down, will most likely be (1) break contact, (2) common of contact and heater and (3) heater. I would expect (1) to switch a solenoid or relay coil, (2) probably goes to power supply common, maybe through a relay contact, and (3) will need some kind of ballast, like another relay coil in series, as applying 50V otherwise will give it a brilliant but extremely short life. If possible, could you take a meter along and find out the resistances of whatever is in series with each heater?
Rotolite problem
Hi Folks
I recently bought a Rotolite from the Central England auction in Coventry. The machine may be known to someone on this site. Anyway it worked for five minutes and now when switched on a couple of lights come on but nothing else happens. Does anyone have any ideas or is there maybe a wiring diagram in existence. Any help at all would be appreciated.
Slotalot's Roto Pool Wiring Diagram now in Resources - Site Admin.
I recently bought a Rotolite from the Central England auction in Coventry. The machine may be known to someone on this site. Anyway it worked for five minutes and now when switched on a couple of lights come on but nothing else happens. Does anyone have any ideas or is there maybe a wiring diagram in existence. Any help at all would be appreciated.
Slotalot's Roto Pool Wiring Diagram now in Resources - Site Admin.
- badpenny
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Re: Rotolite problem
Until someone who knows better comes along
I've never had one of these ............ but!
If the two lights that come on are the end result of the previous game, then I suggest the machine isn't recognising you've inserted a coin for a new game.
Being ever mindful that old English electro-mech machines often have screw driver melting voltage pulsating through their veins: -
Try manually flicking the micro switch that the coin hits after insertion.
Check the wire to and from the micro switch.
Look for any internal fitted fuses that are either blown or not a good contact.
I've never had one of these ............ but!
If the two lights that come on are the end result of the previous game, then I suggest the machine isn't recognising you've inserted a coin for a new game.
Being ever mindful that old English electro-mech machines often have screw driver melting voltage pulsating through their veins: -
Try manually flicking the micro switch that the coin hits after insertion.
Check the wire to and from the micro switch.
Look for any internal fitted fuses that are either blown or not a good contact.
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