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slotsoffun
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Re: Roto-Pool, Roto-Fruit, Rotolite, Electrodart, Bingola, e

Postby slotsoffun » Fri Mar 13, 2015 12:03 am

Slotalot, this has been a fascinating read, enjoyed the step by step diagnosis. Helped my machine, shame it ended in mid-flight and we never found out if Junior got his bell to work??? Or did it end up getting thrown out the window!!!!
:lol:

junior
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Re: Roto-Pool, Roto-Fruit, Rotolite, Electrodart, Bingola, e

Postby junior » Fri Mar 13, 2015 12:26 am

Hi,
I have not got the bell to work yet. I think I will take said pain in the arse on a road trip this spring or summer to see where I'm going wrong, so look out all you clever people.

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operator bell
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Re: Roto Pool Mechanism Hit and Miss!!!

Postby operator bell » Fri Mar 13, 2015 1:13 am

Here's a useful bit of bumf on uniselectors. It gives a little bit of advice on adjusting the beasts. One thing it doesn't warn you is that you can detach the contact bank from the mechanism completely, and it's a pain in the a$$ to put it back again, so don't do that. You probably have a uniselector with bridging wipers, if it sometimes lights 4 lamps. You should be able to adjust it.
uniselectors.pdf
(1001.74 KiB) Downloaded 383 times

slotsoffun
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Re: Roto Pool Mechanism Hit and Miss!!!

Postby slotsoffun » Sat Mar 14, 2015 11:23 am

Thanks for the link. Found the Uniselector guide very useful and managed to adjust the lights correctly. Now it's just the bell problem not ringing!

However.....Does anyone here own a roto-type machine? the payout slide must be the most un-usual design I've ever seen. When you look down the coin tube you'll see that the slide covers only half the hole. Coins appear to perch precariously on this.. I find it hard to understand such a different method used compared to 95% of all slide payout systems. It also has problems if there are only 1 or 2 coins remaining in the tube!
Is this how other Roto machines payout, and what's your thoughts on this?
roto-slide.jpg
Top view of coin payout tube
roto-slide-under.jpg
View from beneath
roto-slide-side-view.jpg
Side view

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slotalot
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Re: Roto Pool Mechanism Hit and Miss!!!

Postby slotalot » Sat Mar 14, 2015 3:24 pm

The coin payout tube/slide looks fine and just how it should be, the weight of the coins keeps the stack from tipping.
As to the bell not ringing?? the problem will be with the thermal relay, if as you say you have has it smoking it will most likely have destroyed the heater coil, this is a common problem with this range of machines. :!?!: there is a second thermal relay that cuts out if the start/stop button gets stuck or held in for long periods, you could try swapping the 2 relays over, as the one on the start/stop button is not needed so much for home use.. :D

slotsoffun
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Re: Roto Pool Mechanism Hit and Miss!!!

Postby slotsoffun » Sat Mar 14, 2015 7:41 pm

thanks. When I get a win, the bell now sounds, but will not stop, but if I use a screwdriver to break the contact on the 1st thermal relay, the payout relay kicks in and pays out. So Im guessing your right and the thermal bi metal strip is not working and causing the bell not to stop! I will try and swap.

Do you know if its possible to replace these cut-outs with a modern electronic equivalent?

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operator bell
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Re: Roto Pool Mechanism Hit and Miss!!!

Postby operator bell » Sat Mar 14, 2015 8:47 pm

You can replace the start side timer with a time delay relay, IF you can find any that work on 50VDC. Generally they work on 12-24V DC or 110-220 AC. It won't work for the bell side, which needs a delay on the make AND the break. The moment the slide contacts cut off the payout relay, the delay relay will reset and short the payout relay out again. You could make it work but it would need quite a bit of rewiring. There really is no convenient substitute for those little bi-metals.

If you can live without the bell, the game works fine with neither time delay in circuit.

<edit> I just had a D'OH moment. The function of the bi-metals is exactly the same as a PTC THERMISTOR. You power it up, it heats up, it opens the circuit. Remove power, it cools down, it makes the circuit again. With appropriate thermal time delays.
PTC.jpg
PTC.jpg (9.09 KiB) Viewed 1634 times
If we can find PTCs that work in this circuit in place of the unobtainable bi-metals, we can bring new life to very many of these games. In order to select one, we need to know the resistance of the circuit it's in. Will somebody please measure the coil resistance of the Start Relay R5? I expect it to be about 2000 ohms, the most common resistance for PO type 3000 relays. Also we need the coil resistance of Payout Relay R3, and the resistance of the Bell.

slotsoffun
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Re: Roto Pool Mechanism Hit and Miss!!!

Postby slotsoffun » Sun Mar 15, 2015 12:27 am

Magic! Maybe you've solved the problem with these new modern delay things! Although I have the test metre and the machine, I've absolutely no idea how to take those measurements you want... I'm hoping another member will chip in here with the ratings.

Thanks for shedding some light on the problems.

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slotalot
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Re: Roto Pool Mechanism Hit and Miss!!!

Postby slotalot » Sun Mar 15, 2015 7:45 pm

Just to add more fog to the mix :!:
I have worked on a few of this type of machine, I have found that the components in the control circuit can vary from machine to machine, ie: the coil resistance on one machine may not be the same as on another, or the type of uniselectors may differ,this is because the machines were built from surplus GPO stock and would depend on what was available at the time, also Jamieson's wound their own transformers at this time, and in some cases transformers would be made to "match" the relay coils being used. :dammit:
So my point is this, any resistance/voltage measurements will need to be taken from your machine alone as it might differ from an other machine, if you see what I mean !PUZZLED!
Roll on British Standards...... /\UK/\

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operator bell
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Re: Roto Pool Mechanism Hit and Miss!!!

Postby operator bell » Sun Mar 15, 2015 9:20 pm

I think it probably wouldn't work anyway. The PTC would have to go where the switch contact is on the schematic, in series with the relay coil, where it would be limited to the relay current - about 20mA for a typical 2k relay. A PCT that will switch at such low current has about a 3k cold resistance, too high for the relay to operate. For a PTC with a sensible resistance, below about 500 ohms, the trip current is way higher. Even the bi-metals have that problem, and if you look at the schematic in the manual, you see the heating coil on the bi-metal is in parallel with the relay, not in series.

What might work is to simulate this arrangement, using a PTC as the series switch but heating it by fixing a big fat resistor in contact with it to replace the bi-metal heating coil.


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