BMR and BDR bandits

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gameswat
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Re: BMR and BDR bandits

Post by gameswat »

Just re-reading my collection of old UK Replay magazines for research purposes and came across this about early collector Les Hinsey in June 1977: "and a fruit machine with its reels in conical formation, made from the surplus castings of a railway-ticket machine manufacturer."
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Re: BMR and BDR bandits

Post by coppinpr »

sounds about right! :cool:
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Re: BMR and BDR bandits

Post by pennymachines »

I think this was one of those little word-of-mouth myths which arose from associating the utilitarian look of BMR bandits with the fact that the company was known to have made ticket machines for the London Underground. Two problems - BMR were supplying the ticket machines when they were supposedly trying to use up these parts and anyway the cabinets are not the same. The change tray is a similar shape to the payout tray on some of their bandits (not the floor-standers though), but that's as far as it goes.


BMR-TicketMachines.jpg

Although their styling might suggest 1960s or 1950s manufacture, these ticket machines, produced by Brecknell Munro & Rogers, were quietly futuristic. They first appeared in busy Underground stations as early as 1937.

At that time, individual tickets were purchased from one point to another, many with different prices. These clearly labelled machines helped regular commuters buy tickets for commonly made journeys that cost a set amount - on the poster it shows 4D. They were both functional and beautiful.

They were still in use at some locations into the 1980s.
https://www.ltmuseum.co.uk

By the way, I wonder if anybody owns one of these machines. I don't recall if the London Transport Museum has one. Most, if not all, would have been recycled when they were decommissioned.
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Re: BMR and BDR bandits

Post by gameswat »

I assumed they meant mech casting as there are many. And why not use up parts already designed and sitting in the factory, not necessarily yet obsolete. Though could also be once they'd improved or changed the ticket design. Guess there must be patents for the ticket machines?
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Re: BMR and BDR bandits

Post by pennymachines »

Actually, I can't really make sense of, "a fruit machine with its reels in conical formation, made from the surplus castings of a railway-ticket machine manufacturer."
Is he suggesting BMR acquired surplus castings off a different manufacturer of railway ticket machines and used them to make bandits? !PUZZLED!

Other than platform tickets, as far as I know, the first railway ticket machines were the aforementioned London Underground machines. So we must be talking about BMRs own surplus castings. Obviously they couldn't have been used on the flat-disk, counter-top Brooklands Racer (patented in 1933 & '35) because it predates the ticket machine (1937).

I don't know how much later the floor-standing, conical reeled machines were, but they don't use any of the same exterior castings as the earlier version - even the handles are different. What's more, there appear to be few (if any) interior parts of the countertop, floor-standing and 'bread bin' bandits which are interchangeable. Nor does there appear to be anything make-do or improvised about these mechanisms.

Although there could be some small bits used in both ticket machines and bandits, I don't buy the "made from surplus castings" idea. I doubt there would be much in an electromechanical ticket machine which could be re-purposed for use in a mechanical bandit.

As you say, you'd think there must be a patent for the ticket machine but I've examined all the BDR patents I could find.
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Re: BMR and BDR bandits

Post by coppinpr »

I remember the ticket machines well and they were not made of strong metal at all, very tinny in fact. They made a drum like sound if you hit them. As a good boy I didn't do that of course. !SAINT!

I have a copy of their London underground turnstile patent but couldn't find the ticket machine patent.
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Re: BMR and BDR bandits

Post by pennymachines »

pennymachines wrote: Tue Jul 04, 2017 11:43 pmOther than platform tickets, as far as I know, the first railway ticket machines were the aforementioned London Underground machines.
I'm reminded by this photo that there were Underground ticket vendors which pre-dated the above BMR machines.
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Re: BMR and BDR bandits

Post by treefrog »

With the large version on eBay for over a year still not selling, someone let one roll below last week and fetched £410. I was interested to see where this would go as however interesting they are, they are heavy, large and not the prettiest of machines... Only second time seen one sell, the previous one 8 years ago sold for similar money, a lot of metal in there...
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Re: BMR and BDR bandits

Post by coppinpr »

I'm glad it went for £400+ or I would have been tempted to bid... which would have been a mistake. I would have loved to work on it BUT how to ship it? Where to put it? and what do you do with it when it's finished? ....sell it for £400 :!?!:

I know we have talked at length and decided these were NOT made from BDR ticket machine leftovers, but there is something about it, perhaps just the same guy designed both cases. :lol:
Great slot machine though, running on 6d and a win got you a free trip to Bethnal Green not only that ...but a winner EVERY time!!
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Re: BMR and BDR bandits

Post by pennymachines »

The 6D one has been through the auction rooms a couple of times recently, but is apparently just a scratch-built stage prop.
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Re: BMR and BDR bandits

Post by treefrog »

One of our forum colleagues from the forum has a line of about 6 of them, although I believe they are not for gaming, but to hold the house in position as it is on a steep hill. :HaHa:
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Rare BMR Photo

Post by coppinpr »

Topic merged - Site Admin.

Today my www.penny-arcade.info site was given a great photo of a Christmas fancy dress party given for the staff of Brecknell Munro and Rogers in (we think) the late 20's or very early 30's.
The owner of the photo's grandfather (marked in red) is the only person we can definitely name. His name was Wilfrid Gregory, he worked for BMR/BDR for a considerable time and he can be seen again in the second photo taken around 1942 while the company was engaged in making tanks in Swineford near Bath.

Mr Gregory's grandson tells me his grandfather was very proud of the work he did designing and making the new London underground ticket machines the company became famous for.
He would be very grateful in anyone can put names to anyone else in the photo. I'm assuming the seated man in the front was one of the owners... but which one? Clearly the staff are in fancy dress but who were the men dotted among the crowd and flanking the front row all wearing the same odd uniform? A blow up of the photo shows their cap badge and jacket badge to be very like the company badge used later in the companies life (photo 3).

A long shot but info much appreciated.
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Re: Rare BMR Photo

Post by john t peterson »

It looks like about 10% of the people in the top photo got an invitation to a costume party rather than a Christmas fancy dress shindig. That might explain the two milkmen in the front row.

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Re: Rare BMR Photo

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From the same source as the above photos the www.penny-arcade.info site has gained this somewhat interesting thirteen page booklet produced after the death of H.L.Rogers in celebration of his life and work. Although it touches on his work in slot machines it deals as much with his achievements outside of work as it does with his business life. The booklet is interesting if you look "between the lines" as it were. The company clearly made its early money making electrification equipment converting horse drawn trams to electric trams. There are photos of Rogers supervising the first day of work converting Bristol Trams and bosses from both Bristol and London tram companies are listed among the mourners at the funeral as are top executives from Imperial Tobacco and WD & HO Wills showing his work on cigarette vending machines was considered important to the companies.

Below are the front page, a very odd photo of H.L. (standing centre) and his brothers on a climbing trip in (I think) Switzerland, and a great caricature of the man and a short poem touching on his cigarette vending machines and slot machines. The complete booklet will appear soon on the BDR section of the penny-arcade site.


Hugh Innes Rogers 1 (1).jpg


Hugh Innes Rogers 5.jpg


Hugh Innes Rogers 9.jpg

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