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daveslot
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Re: Caille Ben-Hur

Postby daveslot » Tue Mar 11, 2008 8:05 pm

Neither of these is made by Caille, they are English produced, probably by Clements in the 20/30s.

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Re: Caille Ben-Hur

Postby pennymachines » Wed Mar 12, 2008 12:52 pm

You may be right but you're gonna have to expand on that Dave.

The 1906 date has to be wrong because Caille didn't introduce the Ben Hur until 1908, but they produced them in some quantity from that date until 1932. Also the more ornate front castings on the version below which Geddes & Mead date to 1908 certainly looks earlier to me. So could the above example be the "improved" model which Caille produced from 1928. If it is a copy by Clement & Whales, they were sailing a bit close to the wind placing a marquee with the "Caille" name on top.

I would agree that Brian's machine is more likely a Clement & Whales so-called Caille Commercial but without seeing the stampings on the 50 stop-mechanism, can you be sure it isn't a revamped Caille? The later Clement & Whales Commercials and Greyhounds have 25 stop mechanisms.
BenHur1.jpg
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daveslot
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Re: Caille Ben-Hur

Postby daveslot » Wed Mar 12, 2008 4:22 pm

Hi Dave, I have not see the revamp 1928 Caille, has anyone any pics of one, as for the in the US, I have other observations: I am not aware of any made on 50c, it is 25 stops, it has the large payout cup, all the Ben Hurs I have seen have the half size one and 50 stops, the case is quarter cut oak, I have never seen a British one with this, it looks as though this may have operated in France as you can see the tell-tale bolt heads were the licence plate was fitted.

As for the Clements, from my own observations these were all made 50 stop originally, then later cut down to 25 stops as, I presume, they became worn. All the 25 stops I have seen look as if the teeth on the payout wheel have been hand cut, whereas the 50 stop wheels look as manufactured. Any comments please...

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operator bell
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Re: Caille Ben-Hur

Postby operator bell » Wed Mar 12, 2008 8:34 pm

Wow, they all look different - it seems improbable that they were all made by the same company. I'm inclined to believe the French connection with the VCA machine because of the symbols - the sun, moon, stars is a very French theme. There's a French one in the Gauselman museum that looks very similar, except it has the usual colors and numbers and is missing the Caille nameplate. Could the Cailles be an early example of badge-engineering?

Link to Museum web site - note, the links don't work on the English pages.

The picture's detailed enough that you can see fingerprints on the metal and screw holes at the bottom where there may have been a license plate. Photo credits may belong to Freddy Bailey, though in truth I can't remember where I got the picture.
Gauselman Ben Hur.jpg

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Re: Caille Ben-Hur

Postby pennymachines » Thu Mar 13, 2008 2:10 am

Two more for good measure.

Dick Bueschell refers to the 1926 improved model of Ben Hur in the Illustrated Guide to 100 Collectible Slot Machines Vol 1 but there's no picture, so I don't know how it differed.

Yes, those licence plate holes and cosmic disc surely point to France. The one below is in fact from Jean-Claude Baudot's Arcadia: Slot Machines of Europe & America and he dates it even more erroneously to 1905. Reproduced in the back of the book is a consignment note to La Compagnie Caille, Paris from Caille Brothers, Detroit dated 1911 which includes four Ben Hurs on 10 Cents. So they were supplying machines manufactured for the French distribution arm of the company on French coinage and I suspect they did the same for the British market. The other Ben Hur pictured is in Britain and has no hint of a French past.

Could it be that the "improvement" was to the tune of 25 stops? None of the later ones seem to run to 50 stops.
BenHur3.jpg
BenHur2.jpg

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Re: Caille Ben-Hur

Postby brianward » Fri Mar 14, 2008 10:31 pm

Thanks to all for the information. A friend has told me that he had a machine exactly the same some 20 years ago and he was told that some 200 machines were imported for the British market between the wars. Imported then may well have meant from either the US or France. For me, I played on one at the Newcastle Under Lyme travelling fair in the late 50s and won. I therefore always wanted one. If memory serves me right, Jerry auctioned one at Coventry in November 2006 but it did not reach reserve.

Thanks again for the replies. Really enjoy the slot fellowship,

Brian.

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Re: Caille Ben-Hur

Postby operator bell » Fri Mar 14, 2008 11:11 pm

Interesting, isn't it, that we tend to collect the machines we played when we were young. That kind of accounts for the greying of the collector community, as other people have lamented on this and other forums. I personally despise the modern electronic slots and wouldn't have one in my house except to break it up, but I was amazed to find there are entire communities in forums like Fruit Forums and MPU Mecca wetting themselves over Barcrest and JPM machines, which they regard as "old". Meantime somebody on an American forum was comparing auction prices from 1980 and observing that most mechanical bandits fetch less now in actual dollars, which means they're down over 70% in real terms.

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Re: Caille Ben-Hur

Postby arrgee » Tue Mar 18, 2008 4:19 pm

Operator Bell wrote:entire communities in forums like Fruit Forums and MPU Mecca wetting themselves over Barcrest and JPM machines
They probably think we are also nuts wetting ourselves over great lumps of metal and wood mechanical machines that do not light up or make awful electronic sounds :sick:

Would agree with you Operator Bell about electronic slots. I personally love the way all the old, purely mechanical slots, were put together - you can actually see what's going on which makes it interesting for me (oh, yes and I am grey on top, or rather what is left on top).

As for 1980 auction prices today being down 70% in real terms, at least a lot more folk can now afford them. If prices were still as high, only the likes of Heather Mills would be able to afford them, and then she would still winge.

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john t peterson
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Re: Caille Ben-Hur

Postby john t peterson » Tue Mar 18, 2008 4:29 pm

I don't think Ms. Mills will be purchasing British coin-op anytime soon. Now that she has secured her financial future through four years of hard honest labor, she will undoubted be coming to America where she will be feted as the latest replacement for Britney Spears and Paris Hilton by a public seeking titillation at any level. :dammit: If only she could dance. :???:

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Re: Caille Ben-Hur

Postby coin-op » Thu Mar 20, 2008 8:18 am

John T. Peterson wrote:Now that she has secured her financial future
Yep, as the Daily Mail put it 'act in haste, repent at Heather'.


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