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pennymachines
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Re: Caille / Clement & Whales Countertop disc machines

Postby pennymachines » Tue Aug 28, 2018 10:52 am

Yep, that's almost invariably the issue with TV and why we're all watching YouTube instead.

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ALLWIN,CAILLE,ROULETTE,INFO PLEASE

Postby deano67 » Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:19 am

Topic moved & merged - Site Admin.

Hi all,
Latest addition to the collection.
Can anyone give more info on it ? Date etc, production numbers, original cabinet or not ?
Thanks in advance.
ebay-march-12-2766a.jpg
ebay-march-12-2765a.jpg
ebay-march-12-2764a.jpg
ebay-march-12-2763a.jpg

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Re: Caille / Clement & Whales Countertop disc machines

Postby pennymachines » Tue Oct 16, 2018 1:21 pm

I've attached your query to the existing 'Caille / Clement & Whales Countertop disc machines' topic because it contains about all the information we have on these games. Date-wise, I guess anywhere between late '30s and late '40s. Production-wise: these were very popular machines and made over many years, so I'm sure we're talking thousands. The cabinet looks right (compare it to others in this thread) but is quite sharp, so it's either thoroughly restored and refinished or an accurate copy - hard to tell without inspecting it closely.

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Re: Caille / Clement & Whales Countertop disc machines

Postby gameswat » Sun Dec 16, 2018 2:16 am

Just re-reading some old research written by Nic Costa, as published in a series of 1981 Coin Slot magazine articles about various major players in the UK industry. Of great interest to the thread is this about Frederick Bolland:

"Bolland's are best remembered for their production of the perennially popular Commercial. The machine was in fact a copy, adapted for the British market, of the Caille Commercial counter dial machine. The manufacture of the machine was contracted out to A. L. Clements, a Belgian expatriate, who had begun making copies of it as early as 1922, and who by the early 30's had been established by Bolland in a workshop of his own in Montford Place, London, to produce the machine exclusively for the company. It remained in production until late in 1939." (Not very well remembered now it would seem!)

Other than the one Bolland advert added by PM, I can't see any other reference to him on this thread. And strangely this same story above is mentioned in the Braithwaite book but no sign of the Commercial in the Bolland machine listings?

In the Alfred Clement listing in the Braithwaite Arcades book it dates the joining of Clement with Bolland as set up by mid 1932. It then says the Bolland phase lasted until late in 1939. Then stating that Clement appears to have joined Oliver Whales in Redcar from 1941 onwards. So I ask: Where does the attribution come from claiming Clement & Whales as the makers of these machines!?!? !PUZZLED!

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Re: Caille / Clement & Whales Countertop disc machines

Postby pennymachines » Sun Dec 16, 2018 8:58 pm

Yes, Alfred Clement seems to have been responsible for manufacturing these British Caille copies for Bolland in the thirties, then for Whales from 1941. If you look at the artwork on the Greyhounds games you can see the Clement & Whales name. Perhaps they only produced and sold the doggie version?

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Re: Caille / Clement & Whales Countertop disc machines

Postby gameswat » Sun Dec 16, 2018 10:06 pm

I did just come across another piece of old information about them written in a letter to Coin Slot magazine, dated Aug 30 1975.

By S. E. Drew, mechanical engineer to the industry:
"I believe that Bollands (written Bolands) of Camberwell made square corner 1d types. Clement had a factory at Gasholder Lane, Kennington, before the war and moved up to Redcar with Oliver Whales during the war making the round corner version. "

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Re: Caille / Clement & Whales Countertop disc machines

Postby deano67 » Mon Dec 17, 2018 3:59 pm

Bit confused now ?? So is mine a Caille or a copy,can anyone tell by the photos maybe ?
Cheers

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Re: Caille / Clement & Whales Countertop disc machines

Postby pennymachines » Mon Dec 17, 2018 5:03 pm

From what we've learned so far... :didact:
yours is the 'square corner 1d type' made for Bolland's Amusement Machines Supply Co. Ltd of Railway Arch number 427, Gordon Grove, Camberwell by A L Clement of 1b Mountford Place, Kennington Rd., London SE11 some time before the end of 1939.

The Gasholder Lane address given by S. E. Drew for Alfred L Clement is no longer extant. The area was hit by a flying bomb in 1944 and there has been much redevelopment. The first picture below is of Mountford Place from Vauxhall History.org but again, there's no Mountford Place (the address given by Paul Baithwaite) on current maps. There's a Montford Place which appears to be the Gasholder Lane site (the gas holders remain), so maybe both references are to the same address. I walked past it last year - a stone's throw from the Oval and a short walk from the old workhouse where Chaplin stayed with his mother in 1898 (currently the Cinema Museum).
mountford-place-kennington-road.jpg
Mountford Place
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Montford Place, near Gasholder Lane?
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Damage to the Pilgrim Glassworks and gasometer

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Re: Caille / Clement & Whales Countertop disc machines

Postby deano67 » Mon Dec 17, 2018 6:33 pm

OK thanks for the info, so it's not a CAILLE after all then? Any markings on the mech that might pinpoint things?

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Re: Caille / Clement & Whales Countertop disc machines

Postby pennymachines » Mon Dec 17, 2018 7:09 pm

deano67 wrote:
Mon Dec 17, 2018 6:33 pm
OK thanks for the info, so it's not a CAILLE after all then?
Correct. The first machine depicted in this thread is a typical counter-top Caille. Notice particularly the diagonal wood joins on the front. Clement it seems opted for a simpler cabinet construction, often using veneered softwood. As we have said, just to confuse matters, it's likely that a few Caille mechanisms were recased.
deano67 wrote:
Mon Dec 17, 2018 6:33 pm
Any markings on the mech that might pinpoint things?
Not that I'm aware of, which is why attribution is tricky. Are there any markings on your mechanism?


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