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Re: Harper Vending Machines

Posted: Wed May 10, 2017 5:09 pm
by oztoyman

Re: Harper Vending Machines

Posted: Fri May 12, 2017 3:44 pm
by gameswat
Thank you for the video Oz, what a ripper. Have never seen its like before and for a minute I thought someone updated the thing with an '80s electronic sign! Hell of a lot of mech needed to make it work. The Mills 1939 Panoram machine is the only thing I can think of that's similar, having a banner type script running along the top like this, but not with the crazy punched out digital lettering! Would be interesting to find the patent for that mechanism and see if it pre or post dates the Panoram?

Harper cigarette machine

Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 9:12 pm
by inkcollector
Edited and copied from Introductions/Harper cigarette machine - Site Admin.

...looking for information about a nice little Harper slot machine I found yesterday in a bus yard I’ve been clearing. How this survived so well when the shed was so open to the elements is amazing.

Re: Harper cigarette machine

Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 9:51 pm
by pennymachines
Here are a couple of similar examples that I've seen.

Re: Harper cigarette machine

Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2018 9:50 am
by ilovemyjukebox
That's a good looking machine and what's more, it comes with its history too. If you do manage to get the front off, inside it should have a certificate that will tell you who checked it before it left the factory and what date that was.

Harper cigarette machine

Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2018 12:11 pm
by coppinpr
Having spent much of my youth in Croydon I tried to find out the address of Harper Automatics (I couldn't, so if anyone knows could they tell please).

BUT I did find this interesting article in the London Gazette about the owner of Harper automatics (Percy Harper) going through a court case for allegedly getting members of the staff at Harpers (a tinsmith and a manager) to bribe electors by buying them drinks in a pub when he stood (unsuccessfully) for parliament in 1938. Percy didn't actually buy the drinks himself but was in the pub and did play darts with the electors....shame on him. It's a good job politicians don't do anything that bad today. :lol:

County Borough Elections in England and Wales, 1919–1938: A Comparative Analysis: Volume 3: Chester to East Ham

Re: Harper Vending Machines

Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2018 1:05 pm
by pennymachines
Yes, I also found that titbit last night when searching for more details about the company.
One other issue enlivened the municipal politics of Croydon in 1938 when three local men were prosecuted on charges of bribing electors at a municipal election. Percy Harper, the managing director of the Harper Automatic Machine Manufacturing Company, had stood unsuccessfully as an RA candidate in a by-election in Whitehorse Manor ward on 8 December 1937. Two of his employees, a manager in his firm and a tinsmith, had allegedly 'frequently treated electors to drinks in public houses' in the two weeks of campaigning and on the night of the poll. In addition, 'three sums, totalling 5s.' were distributed on other occasions by Harper's canvassers. Harper himself had been in the pubs at the time of the alleged 'treating', and had played darts with the customers, but he himself had not stood the rounds of drinks. The case went to the Central Criminal Court, and was sensational enough to prompt questions in Parliament, where a Tory MP demanded to know who the 'informer' was who had prompted the charges, implying that it was someone in the Croydon Labour party. As there was no evidence that Harper himself had paid for the drinks, he was eventually acquitted, along with his employees. There is no way of knowing, of course, how the electors of Croydon viewed these events, but some at least amongst them must have wondered why a prosperous businessmen should frequent the public houses of a ward he was standing in, whose inhabitants were described in the Times as 'of the working class', while one of his managers bought drinks all round.
Mr. H. G. Williams asked the Attorney-General the name of the common informer on whose instigation the Public Prosecutor initiated criminal proceedings for alleged offences in connection with a municipal election in Croydon against Mr. Percy Harper, Mr. John Terry, and Mr. William Peacock?
The Attorney-General The question refers to a common informer, but this was not a prosecution brought by a common informer but was a prosecution by the Director of Public Prosecutions. It is contrary to the public interest to disclose the identities of any persons who may have given information to the Director of Public Prosecutions in relation to prosecutions undertaken by him. I need not add that the fullest inquiries were made before these proceedings were brought and the justices, after hearing evidence, committed the case for trial.
Mr. Williams Shall I be right in assuming that the Labour party of Croydon were very disappointed when the jury stopped the case?
Mr. Thorne Is the Attorney-General aware that the common informer is the most despicable man in the world?
The Attorney-General This case had nothing to do with a common informer.
Hansard

Some more cig vendors here: https://www.twgram.me/tag/cigarettemachine/

I find it astonishing how hard it is to find so much as the full address of the factory or offices of a London-based company with several decades of manufacturing history and a string of patents to its name. Sweetmeat's token (which carries an image of what I take to be the factory) is stamped "D. HARPER & CO'S AUTOMATIC MACHINES HOLLOWAY RD. LONDON. N." (although the piece above identifies Percy Harper as the managing director). From the transfer close-up on Ian's machine, we get "Waddon, Croydon" and on the excellent Mals Machine Tokens site there is a guarantee slip from the company dated 31st July, 1930 which appears to be signed by Percy Harper and gives us: The Harper Automatic Machine Manufacturing Co. Limited, Automatic Works, Stafford Road, Waddon, Croydon, Surrey and two phone numbers which I can't read.

Re: Harper cigarette machine

Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2018 5:54 pm
by inkcollector
ilovemyjukebox wrote: Sat Nov 03, 2018 9:50 am That's a good looking machine and what's more, it comes with its history too. If you do manage to get the front off, inside it should have a certificate that will tell you who checked it before it left the factory and what date that was.
That’s good to know. I can’t wait to open it tomorrow now and see what’s inside. I’ll post what I find here. For me the story is as interesting as the item. I’m hoping that the person who was checking the machine was a local chap with a local name so I can trace them back.

Re: Harper Vending Machines

Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2018 5:57 pm
by inkcollector
What a shame, I think I’ve misread. The name of the person who checked it before it left the factory and not the person who regularly checked the machine... never mind.

Re: Harper Vending Machines

Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2018 5:14 pm
by pennymachines
Further research reveals that between 1929 and 1944 Harper filed over 50 patents relating to improvements in coin-operated vending, including German, Danish, Austrian and Canadian patents. I've added them to Archive/Patents. Until 1935 Percy Stephen Harper records his address as Adelaide House, 1, Ashurst Walk, Croydon, Surrey, but by 1937 the Automatic Works address at Waddon is given.

There are just two non-coin-op filings after the war from a new address (101, Purley Downs Road, Sanderstead, Surrey), suggesting the company had stopped trading by this time. Ominously, these are for Improvements in Abdominal Belts (1956) and Improvements in Appliances for Treating Hernia (1957). Anyone who's moved a floor-standing Harper vending machine will know where he was coming from!

Apparently nearby Crystal Palace F.C. employed local businessmen to chair the board and a Mr Percy Harper took the role in 1939.

Again, based upon what can be gleaned from the patents, and other scattered snippets of information, it is incredible that there is nothing more substantial recorded about this once dominant company. British vending machine history remains largely unwritten it seems.

It is often stated that an American named William Rowe invented the cigarette vending machine in 1926. Whether this is correct, I don't know. Harper's first patent was 321842 in 1929.

I've posted some Harper vendors in the Museum. The earliest example is mounted on a wall outside at Stamford: Harper De Luxe.

This machine carries the usual instructions about inserting a coin and pulling out the drawer. Later machines have 'ENTIRELY AUTOMATIC' cast into their fronts. It is evident from the patents that Harper strove to limit user interaction to the inserting of a coin. The machine does the rest, first by purely mechanical means, later electro-mechanical.

Two column floor standing Entirely Automatic

Three column floor standing Entirely Automatic

Four column floor standing Entirely Automatic

Later version three column floor stander

Aristo's single column wall mounted Harper Super Product

Harper it seems focussed almost exclusively on cigarette vending machines, which ranged from single column wall mounted to 2, 3 and 4 column wall and floor models. Here are a few more images trawled from the net:

Re: Harper Vending Machines

Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2018 6:35 pm
by coppinpr
The early and late address were both upper class residential areas (as they still are today) at the times mentioned, in fact "Adelaide house" is the only one of the original houses still standing in Ashurst Walk. The late address shows Percy to have been somewhat successful, the Downs Rd address was very much in the "stock broker belt" then and most houses there would fetch £2 million plus today.
The Crystal palace connection would also make sense as the factory site and the Ward Percy stood for at election are close to the football ground.

Re: Harper Vending Machines

Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 8:11 am
by bob
A couple of Harper floor standing 4 column cigarette vending machines found their way to Australia. I don't know if any were operated here to vend cigarettes though, as I saw these for sale at antique dealers many years ago. I think that the antique dealers bought them in the UK to sell here in their shops to collectors. This would seem to be substantiated by the original British advertising still on the bottom of the machines. The "Stepney Garage" machine has the running perforated advertising band at the top.

Re: Harper Vending Machines

Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 3:49 pm
by pennymachines
In my quest to find something more about Percy Stephen Harper and his company, such as a photograph of the gentleman, I was able to more or less confirm that he was the same Percy Harper who chaired Crystal Palace football club from 1939-1950. Apparently he held one meeting from his Purley Downs Road home in Sanderstead, and appears to have been a controversial, autocratic chairman.
...the chairman Percy Harper was suspended from football for allegedly bringing the game into disrepute after questioning the FA Council's capabilities, as well as those of the Football League's management committee, in an article published in the matchday programme*.

The suspension, along with punishments handed to two other directors, exposed a deep schism in the boardroom with another director, F. Broomfield, publicly contesting Harper's assertion that the club was in deep financial crisis. The chairman's reinstatement upon appeal forced Broomfield and Truett to resign. "I find it impossible to work with the present chairman," said Broomfield, with Harper's autocratic style subsequently drawing criticism from all sides.

Yet with the benefit of hindsight and compared with the humdrum existence which followed throughout the 1950s, they must have seemed exhilarating days. In peacetime Palace first plummeted under Harper's chairmanship and then stagnated under that of David Harris and Arthur Wait. The 1948-49 season was the worst the club had ever endured, with the better players steadily sold off and Jack Butler unable to restore order from the dug-out. The sense that Palace's fans had been offered false hope prevailed, not for the last time. Harper had held court at his home in Sanderstead in the first season after the conflict and pledged that the Glaziers would spend heavily to emerge from the doldrums as genuine challengers. The problem was that Harper, a visionary in some respects, had no means of finding the money he had promised.

In his autobiography Soccer Rebel, Jimmy Guthrie, a former Portsmouth favourite who had arrived as a player-coach in November 1946, wrote: "Harper had big ideas for Palace. He wanted to introduce speedway and greyhound racing at Selhurst, but the local residents petitioned against speedway because of the noise and the Football Association... refused to sanction the presence of greyhounds... He hit the newspaper headlines with stories that Palace would spend a million pounds to get into the First Division, but there was little money put on the line. He thought we should recruit players from amateur clubs, as this would cost only £100 for each player and the club he left. The idea was sound but, again, there was no money. Meanwhile, Harper was selling off our best players."

...Harper prompted yet more confusion by dismissing the manager, Irwin, just hours after spending an apparently pleasant evening in the company of the entire backroom staff at Selhurst Park...
* Supporters who purchased the sheet issued for the game against Luton Town on 30th September 1944 found the whole of the reverse taken up with a statement by chairman Percy Harper. He expressed his views on bringing greyhound racing to Selhurst Park, as well as criticising the entertainment tax the club had to pay. That got him into trouble with the Football League and the FA for considering it was time those incumbent made way for younger men.
In 1949, "after castigating the club's finances at the annual general meeting", Harper accepted an offer of £3,000 from a group of seven wealthy supporters to buy the club, and handed over control in 1950.
The History of Crystal Palace in Words & Pictures

Harper Cigarette machine

Posted: Sun May 12, 2019 1:30 pm
by sinah96
Topic moved & merged - Site Admin.

Hello

I am a new member on here and I am seeking some advice.

I have a Harper Vending (please see attached photos) and I don't know what to do with it, is it worth restoring or just sell it as it is?

Thanks Mark

Re: Harper Cigarette machine

Posted: Sun May 12, 2019 2:39 pm
by special when lit
They normally fetch a few hundred quid on ebay.

Re: Harper Cigarette machine

Posted: Sun May 12, 2019 7:48 pm
by treefrog
As with everything, condition and completeness impact value. Your machine is the middle sized 3 column version, so more practical than the larger 4 slot version. It is missing the glass advert below and the clock in the middle as well as glass. The clock can be replaced as the Smiths clock used were also used in mantel clocks and do come up for sale. Other key element is the state of the metal and plate which would cost a fortune to sort if bad, but if it cleans up presentable, then would make all the difference. Artwork a little more tricky to replace, but see below link where these machines have been discussed and you will get an idea of what should be at the bottom.....certainly looks worth saving and down to you if you want to keep and make good.....

Re: Harper Cigarette machine

Posted: Mon May 13, 2019 8:57 am
by gameswat
Sell as is, there are so many parts in that thing and once you start pulling it apart you open a can of corroded worms! Unless you really know what you're doing then best to leave it to someone who does know and has the knowledge and required skills. Sometimes it works out well to mildly clean up pieces like this first to show the good points, but that also can bite you in the arse when things like the plating that is there flakes off and ends up looking worse! Also sucks when you find major flaws you didn't know where there to begin with, because if you're honest then that will have to be pointed out to the buyer. Replating is the killer these days. I pretty much just stay away from buying anything that needs much plating and stick to pieces with a good aged patina that I think look way better anyway.

Re: Harper Cigarette machine

Posted: Mon May 13, 2019 12:16 pm
by pennymachines
I don't think I can add much to the advice above. These are eye-catching icons of thirties design, but they're large and weighty, lack utility and are peripheral to amusement machine collectors' interests. For those reasons, their market may lie more with interior designers, looking for a style piece to dress a pub, club, hotel or trendy apartment. Finding such buyers may not be easy. Two fine cigarette vendors went unsold last month in the auction rooms, including a remarkable 6 column Harper vendor with the scrolling advert display and a BMR model.

Harper vendor

Posted: Thu Sep 05, 2019 3:09 pm
by 13rebel
Post split, moved & merged - Site Admin.

I thought this looked similar to sweetmeats' flyer.
The photos are of an exhibit in Rustington museum which is in the process of being moved to another building. The machine is made of metal. No other information I'm afraid.

Harper Automatics De Luxe saleman's mechanism

Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2021 2:01 pm
by hibberd
Topic moved & merged - Site Admin.

Hello there
I own a Harper Automatics De Luxe selector mechanism in a 'leather' carrying case, presumably for demonstration by a salesman. There is a testing slide with various coins to show effective it was.
I was development manager for Dean vending (of KitKat and Beachnut machines) and when they closed nearly 40 years ago? I bought the mechanism in the auction.
Any one with more information or interest I wonder.
Lots of chrome.