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santelmann wrote: ↑Sat Sep 07, 2019 5:49 pm

mastereddy69 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 29, 2019 6:35 pm Does anyone know what that little glass window is on the top left of the front of the machine?

Normaly is a small numbered disc (2 ,4,8,12,16,20), driven by some gears from payout unit, behind the window.
It shows the value of last profit.
In 99% the parts a missing. I knew only 2 machines that still have this item.

Think I have a version of this in a rather plain case but with a complete mech. Skills, vender, future play.

Responses to this post split to Jentzsch & Meerz Giganta - Site Admin

mastereddy69 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 10, 2019 2:46 pm And is it true that the mechanisms of a Tura were made by Mills or is that not true?

My understanding is that the prototypes were Mills mechs. The idea being that they did the project work. However why I think that I have no idea, I might have read it somewhere or I might just have simply made it up.

BP

It`s not easy to answer that question. I had some discussions with other collectors in the past.
I think Tura used Mills parts, as far they were available, and complete with own parts. Missing parts were produced in Germany.
There were different workshops in the Tura factory building:
Paintshop, joinery, electroplating, metal punch. A lot of work was done by external factories, all castings for example.

There were some German manufacturers who used Mills (and other) machines to build their „own“ product.
For example some stripes for the typical Mills reels: Tura (Schwarz) in paper, Coppel (F.Coppel) in sheet metal:

badpenny wrote: ↑Sun Sep 15, 2019 7:52 pm

mastereddy69 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 10, 2019 2:46 pm And is it true that the mechanisms of a Tura were made by Mills or is that not true?

My understanding is that the prototypes were Mills mechs. The idea being that they did the project work. However why I think that I have no idea, I might have read it somewhere or I might just have simply made it up.

BP

If you translate the Tura document, they said:

Note
Our products are
own German intellectual and manual work
no slave-like imitation of foreign models or patent infringement, therefore no risk of tarnishing as with similar models. On request, all machines can be supplied with a running belt, as in the past.

Now looks like a Mills mech !!!!
About colors, I think most of the machine was yellow, red and black colors of German flag.

The full story I learnt was.
Gambling in pre war Germany was fiercely controlled.
Hitler looking for every opportunity to raise money suddenly legalised gambling machines.
Mills were invited to supply via Tura Automatenfabrik, prototypes and then large orders, which Mills were never paid for.
All the research & development having been done, Tura started domestic manufacturing and got clearance to import aluminium for casting.
Most of which along with other false projects was diverted to aircraft manufacture.

Now that's all a conglomeration of various conversations I've had in Europe.
I don't know how accurate it is, only that I heard similar accounts from different directions. After all, does it sound like the kind of shenanigans a splendid bunch of chaps like that would have contrived?

I am wary of history being created from stories.

badpenny wrote: ↑Sat Feb 18, 2023 2:36 pm Mills were invited to supply via Tura Automatenfabrik, prototypes and then large orders, which Mills were never paid for.
All the research & development having been done, Tura started domestic manufacturing and got clearance to import aluminium for casting.

Schwarz was a trader in early times (together with Coppel) for Mills, then for Jennings.
In 1932 foreign exchange control started in Germany, so there was no chance to import machines legally. Coppel tried smuggling machines to sell with his own castings as a German product. He was later arrested for this.
So Schwarz was forced to build his "own" machines in Germany.

Thanks

Hi, BP!

When you really intersted in Schwarz history, I could scan a lot of documents.
There are a lot of legends, mostly not true. Materials for casting were in the "Silent" age also availble without problems.

The production of German market bandits ended with a "visit" of authorities in the Tura factory. He cheated them in case that he produced other "Kasus" mechanism than approved. All Kasus machines were forbidden immediately and banned.
For customers Schwarz looks like a con artist.....

I've just completed some artwork for a Tura in France, simple designs but effective.

santelmann wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 9:03 am Hi, BP!

When you really intersted in Schwarz history, I could scan a lot of documents.
There are a lot of legends, mostly not true. Materials for casting were in the "Silent" age also availble without problems.

The production of German market bandits ended with a "visit" of authorities in the Tura factory. He cheated them in case that he produced other "Kasus" mechanism than approved. All Kasus machines were forbidden immediately and banned.
For customers Schwarz looks like a con artist.....

Schwarz.jpg

Fascinating, lesser squabbles have ended in war you know.
And hearsay passed into history as truth.