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tropicana50
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Bally/Greaves Firebell bandit

Postby tropicana50 » Mon Nov 18, 2019 4:26 pm

I just bought this machine today from auction. It arrives later this week. I was wondering if anyone could tell me some things about this machine.

I have attached some images and a few queries I have. Hoping someone may have some knowledge of this machine.

ss+(2019-11-18+at+04.23.59).jpg
ss+(2019-11-18+at+04.24.17).jpg
ss+(2019-11-18+at+04.24.30).jpg
ss+(2019-11-18+at+04.23.02).jpg
ss+(2019-11-18+at+04.23.02).jpg (13.01 KiB) Viewed 1314 times
- Why does it look like there are 2 hopper tubes (One brown and thin and one yellow)?

ss+(2019-11-18+at+04.24.52).jpg
ss+(2019-11-18+at+04.24.52).jpg (7.51 KiB) Viewed 1314 times
- What is this part?

- On some other photos I have seen of this machine there was an extra part under the reels but this one has empty space. Is something missing or is it a different mechanism?
- The payout structure seems very strange 2,4,6,10,10,10,£1,£10. Does this mean the 10 would pay out £2 as its 10x20p?

Many thanks in advance!

- T

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treefrog
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Re: Firebell One Arm bandit

Postby treefrog » Mon Nov 18, 2019 4:55 pm

I am totally the wrong person to answer your queries as I know nothing about Ballys.....

So it is a modified Bally machine as written by Greaves who were well know for creating new themes on old Bally machines, often with special features like Haunted House. Do a search for Greaves and you will see on this site.

Originally would have had a hopper at bottom for payouts, now all in door with solenoids and pay tubes. They also put small payout cups on as part of conversion.

The numbers on payout will relate to the number of coins, so yes 10 coins wins £2. The bigger tube is for the larger wins, as mentioned, £10 and £1 and looks like it would be hand fill 50p coins (I think that is what it states).

The part you mention on the door, looks like a small motor. I wonder if this is a special light feature behind the panel which maybe rotates some discs to create effects from the front....

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brigham
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Re: Firebell One Arm bandit

Postby brigham » Mon Nov 18, 2019 5:31 pm

It's a well-known Greaves conversion of a Bally, but it's been hacked-about at a later date.
There was talk of it on the MPU Mecca, at one time. These machines are a sort-of 'half-way house' between 'our' machines, and the electro-mechanicals.
Neither Forum does them justice.

tropicana50
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Joined: Mon Nov 18, 2019 4:13 pm

Re: Firebell One Arm bandit

Postby tropicana50 » Mon Nov 18, 2019 5:42 pm

Thanks for the replies guys!

How difficult is it to change those payouts values around?

A motor sounds likely as I think that bottom panel has a fire style light effects. I initially thought it was a speaker, not sure if this has sound or not?

When you say "hacked-about" which bits are you referring to.

I would really like to clean the whole machine up and also sort out the main panel as it has some parts where it looks like the paint has chipped.

ss+(2019-11-18+at+05.41.22).jpg
Is this printed directly on the glass or are the graphics a removable sheet that I can easily replace?

Tom

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coppinpr
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Re: Bally/Greaves Firebell bandit

Postby coppinpr » Mon Nov 18, 2019 9:48 pm

when you say you want to change the payouts (a) what to and (b) for what reason?

I've had earlier Bally machines with a similar motor to drive the light effects. Quite often they stopped working years before the machine was taken out of service, but the operators never bothered to replace them. The early ones you could get into; these later ones I don't know. They run such a light spin that they are often simply gummed up with dirt and a clean will start them running again. Like I said, IF you can get into it.

It would be fair to say the machine was hacked about first by Greaves and, perhaps, later as well. It really boils down to a different glass and totally different style of paying out from the original machine, first with payouts (and perhaps the coinage) changed later.

The heat from old style lighting over many years has caused the paint to flake on the payout glass. At least you can repair this to some degree but it's hit and miss. I can make replacements if you ever need them, PM me if interested.

As Bingham says, this is at the very end of the old style electro mechanicals and the start of the fully electric controlled semi mechanicals and falls at the very end of the era we cover (but it just creeps in. :lol: )

tropicana50
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Re: Bally/Greaves Firebell bandit

Postby tropicana50 » Mon Nov 18, 2019 10:25 pm

I think it seems odd that lesser value symbols pay out more. £2 for the lower ones and £1 for the higher ones? Given that's based off the awful paytable graphic that could be changed?

I am all for cleaning the machine and de-greasing it to get it on good working order. I don't mind the work, but only so much is within my skill base.

The glass that has the graphics on outside the slot reels seems in pretty rough shape. This sort of thing is way outside my capability. Are you able to re-create something that looks new for that? Would love to get new decals and get the whole machine looking like new. If so, then let me know what that would cost and I am sure we can work something out there.

Would love to talk with some of you guys via Skype or whatever chat you use to keep up to date. If that's a possibility then let me know. !!CHEERS!!

- T

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moonriver
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Re: Bally/Greaves Firebell bandit

Postby moonriver » Tue Nov 19, 2019 2:15 am

The machine has been converted by a home punter to these payouts, probably because the payouts appeared so low on original 2p. It would never have been arcade operated on 20p play because it wouldn't have taken enough money to justify the licence duty, and it wouldn't have had a £10 cash jackpot during its operating life, probably only a 50p jackpot.
The updated decals used are borrowed from later AWP conversion kits. The payout structure is all over the place as it's a home 'conversion', altered probably to make it a more attractive sell.

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brigham
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Re: Bally/Greaves Firebell bandit

Postby brigham » Tue Nov 19, 2019 10:01 am

The best thing to do would be to try and find out what a 'new' Greaves Fire Bell looked like, and restore it to that condition.
The Greaves conversions are, to my mind, a collector's item in their own right, and after you have enjoyed completing this one, you will no doubt want to try a 'Showman', or one of the other Greaves types.
To restore this to the original Bally form would be a thankless task; it isn't even clear which model Bally it started out as!
The glass will be the hardest part to get right. The rest is just hardware.

tropicana50
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Re: Bally/Greaves Firebell bandit

Postby tropicana50 » Tue Nov 19, 2019 3:11 pm

moonriver wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 2:15 am
The machine has been converted by a home punter to these payouts, probably because the payouts appeared so low on original 2p. It would never have been arcade operated on 20p play because it wouldn't have taken enough money to justify the licence duty, and it wouldn't have had a £10 cash jackpot during its operating life, probably only a 50p jackpot.
The updated decals used are borrowed from later AWP conversion kits. The payout structure is all over the place as it's a home 'conversion', altered probably to make it a more attractive sell.
How would I go about changing those payout values around? Will it require me to re-program chips and if so what would I need to accomplish that?

- T

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brigham
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Re: Bally/Greaves Firebell bandit

Postby brigham » Tue Nov 19, 2019 4:55 pm

I'd have to look at the machine to work out how Greaves arranged the solenoid payouts. It certainly doesn't involve chips.
Is it in working order? If so you can always watch what happens when it pays out, and work it out from there. It will involve contacts and relays, but little else.
The only solenoid-pay Bally conversions I'm familiar with are the well-known Gold Awards, and have but two payouts: One pulse to the 2x6d slide (pay 1/-), or one pulse to the Gold Award slide (pay one 5/- token).
Yours will be slightly more complicated; but not much!


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