Imperial allwin auction

[ballymad]

Just going through the latest auctions and found this at Chichester - not sure it's any use to anyone.
Not for me - there is no electrics
Lot 380
Sale: Antiques & Collectables, Friday 25th June.
Auction House: Stride & Son, PO9 1XQ.
"An old walnut Imperial penny in the slot gaming machine, 41cms."

[13rebel]

Thanks for the tip-off about the allwin at Chichester auction, ballymad. I decided to go and got there about 8.30,the auction started at 10.00 and this item - the only one I was interested in was at 12.30. On inspection, I could see that the front lower part was riddled with woodworm; it had no back; the front didn't want to move, probably because there was nothing behind the 'handle'? At the top, also it didn't accept the pennies that I had taken, going in the coin slot nearly half way; there didn't seem to be evidence of a coin being jammed. Perhaps it operated on halfpenny? Although the instructions said 'insert penny and a ball will be delivered' etc. However the backflash was remarkably clean for what appeared to be a very old machine, oh and the roof was of a different kind of wood. It had a reserve of £100 and I thought or rather prayed it would go for close to that. Not so - straight in at £300, 320, 340, and it went for £360 plus 15% commission = £414. Anybody here get it? Anybody got any gen on this machine - I couldn't find it in the Braithwaite book.

[gameswat]

As it was such an early and unrestored machine I'll bet the reason the Penny would only half enter is that the spring loaded teeth inside the coin entry will have siezed. Has happened to me almost every time with such entries. The two blades that open and then force the coin inside corrode over time and jam up. Usually need to spend a few hours pulling the entry apart for a full service and then it's fine. And there's always a lot of grime in there from grubby hands!

[badpenny]

plus 15% commission

...............

[13rebel]

Ah, thanks for that snippet Gameswat - something for me to bear in mind should I come across a similar machine. Incidentally, the gallery read; check/lost/reserve/check/lost and there was quite a long narrow tube inside, presumably to keep the checks (tokens?) for payout. Would this and the style of machine indicate that it's a 'Saxony' type and dated around WW1?

[JC]

Pity you missed that one, rebel - it's a genuine piece of coin-op history. It's technically not an allwin, but it is certainly a precursor. It appears to be an Heureka, made in Liepzig c.1900 (see page 204 of Costa's book).
Note to Gamewat: did the mazak coin entries have lead cutters? I've only come across them on the wider brass entries.

[john t peterson]

Well done, Jerry. I was going to guess French, although the lack of fancy spandrels did trouble me a bit. I think you've hit it spot on!

jp

[13rebel]

.........If only.....

[gameswat]

Note to Gamewat: did the mazak coin entries have lead cutters? I've only come across them on the wider brass entries.

JC, sorry about the lax reply - my mind has been elsewhere. Yes, I've seen quite a few die cast coin entries with the lead cutters. Here they are on a French Roulette I own. Interesting that only one of the castings has "Pot Metal Cancer". Was a poor pour on that day.

[lepingouinmecanique]

Hello Gameswat,
Your machine is a "roulette CG" made by Constant Georg in 1912.
If you need more information for restoration, feel free to ask !

[gameswat]

LePingouin, thanks for the offer of help! Funnily enough I've been meaning to email you through your website for months now. I have a few issues I need help with on two French roulettes. The other is a lovely Roulette Bussoz. I picked up both of these in the USA and shipped to Australia. I'll PM you with my small problems.
Cheers.

[coin-op]

Anybody here get it? Anybody got any gen on this machine - I couldn't find it in the Braithwaite book.

Not me, but the member who did get it has now replaced the woodwormed case and asked me to upload pictures which he has supplied.

[gameswat]

What happened to the beautiful arch topped door it once had?? And the door appeared to be veneered originally in a lovely sunburst pattern but has now changed to straight oak. If this is the same machine that was pictured earlier in this thread then I think the buyer did it a great disservice by replacing it. Almost looks like he used a spare allwin case. I much prefer to soak my badly worm eaten wood with hardeners to keep the original veneers or surface. Once I restored the lower front panel of a Drinking Babies machine that was just veneer left in the middle, with much of the back ply eaten. I stuck masking tape over the front to cover all the holes then clamped a piece of wood over that to keep it flat. Then after laying it face down, I poured epoxy resin in from the back to fill the void. The end result was excellent as I even painted over the resin to look like wood grain, not that you could see in there very easily anyway.

[arrgee]

If this is the same machine that was pictured earlier in this thread then I think the buyer did it a great disservice by replacing it

I couldn't agree more, a lovely machine but now looks so bland and pedestrian, total lack of sensitivity.

[pennymachines]

If you've got nothing nice to say, sometimes it's better not to say anything, so I bit my tongue when I saw these pictures, but apparently it's too late now to spare someone's feelings. Perhaps instead we can spare some poor old games the misfortune of misguided "restoration" by making this an example.

As an Anglicized version of the German Heureka, the Imperial might be regarded as the allwin's first known ancestor. Certainly it's an early game, circa 1900, to which the epithet "very rare" truly applies for once. Clearly some effort went into the replacement cabinet, but it is just that: a substitute for something, albeit distressed, that was original, genuine, historical and unquestionably more attractive. The new cabinet is wrong in material, proportion and detail.

Without the original front, the machine has lost more than half its value to a serious collector. If the owner hasn't destroyed or disposed of it, I would advise undoing the work and seeking someone like gameswat to do a sensitive restoration. I believe there is at least one of these games in very good original and complete condition, which could provide a useful guide.

[gameswat]

I don't think I was rude with my comments, just stating a few facts as I saw them. But I felt not saying anything was a lot worse than piping up. We are just caretaking these lovely devices while we're here.
I like it when owners undertake their own work, there's no better way to get to know your machines. But unless you really know what you're doing things can go bad quickly. A lot of the users here are smart enough to know their limitations and will post up first to ask for our help and suggestions. Obviously if this had happened here we would've told the owner to keep this machine as original as possible, and maybe this wouldn't have happened. I try to pass on a few of my ideas on the site that may help somebody, or at least get them thinking about other ways to solve a problem. Not all my ways are the best but after years of experimenting I've kept trying to figure out better ways. I'm 42 and I've only ever had one job in my life, restoring machines. Started at age 9 for one week every school holidays in my parents' factory, who were operating from the early 60s. I left school at 16 and began working full time in 1985.

[pennymachines]

Your post wasn't rude at all and I'm glad it was you who took on the burden of saying it. This forum benefits greatly from the valuable tips and "tricks of the trade" you offer as possibly the most experienced and conscientious restorer out there. It's regrettable, as you say, advice wasn't sought, but perhaps something can be salvaged if the owner of lot 380 reads this in the spirit intended.

[13rebel]

I was at the auction of this machine and went specifically to bid on it but as a newby I felt the price was a bit high for me to know quite what to do with it, having no special skills. When I saw the 'restoration' I thought oh no! I would have left the cabinet as it was, riddled with woodworm and sought advice from this site. I too felt it not my place to say anything not being qualified in these matters. Hopefully the owner will not be too disappointed with our remarks as he has no doubt put some work into it. A lesson to be learned indeed, that there are some clever chaps on this site that are willing to share their know-how and to help whenever possible.

[coin-op]

The owner of the machine which has sparked the last few e mails asked me to post the following

"When bought at the auction, only the front & the door was original, the front has been saved, but the door was virtually powder. The case has been copied from an original machine called HEUREKA c1900 which is a sister machine & probably german [ polyhon ] origin. The only difference is that the type of wood used would have been fruitwood or similar -- I have used oak. We try our best to save these old machines & to find any really old ones without anything done to them over the 110 years or so, then you have to be lucky?"

[gameswat]

At least the new cabinet was copied from something old......but even then the correct wood wasn't used? But having said that why wasn't the original door copied?? Maybe the thought of more work? I agree with PM that much of the interest and value of this machine has been lost with all the changes. Even if the cabinet from auction wasn't original, it was old and had history. I love old machines because they're a physical link with the past. It's amazing to wonder how these things have survived all this time and the changes that have happened in the world since. And often it's the smallest details that get me excited about a machine, something like a decal or an instruction card that you rarely ever see. I labour over every detail to make my machines as close to nice original used condition as I can.