Ebay listings removed

[markymark]

Anyone spotted the Sega Bandit on Ebay at the moment? It's for the case, and all fittings, but no mechanics!!! Complete with phone number to call. I'm guessing the insides are available privately, nudge nudge wink wink...
Well done to whoever this is (maybe someone on these forums?). Very clever idea... I may try it myself.
But on a serious note, I wonder on what grounds ebay could possibly remove it - surely this must go the distance.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/One-Arm-Armed ... 0873588123

What others thoughts on this?

[marktol]

I've spoken to this guy before, he is quick on the email. I may have had some parts from him but I'm not sure!

He has listed several old Segas before, but pre-restoration. By the looks of some of the background pics, I would say he has a fairly sizeable collection.

Be great if it works, although there are a few complete machines I've been watching for a while that look like they may hold out through to the end as well...

[clubconsoles]

I must admit, I have more than a passing interest in ebay as many of my machines were acquired and sold on ebay and I believe it is very sad the state of affairs that the antique slots are classed the same as the modern fruittys as far as the law is concerned.
I think the petition is great, but realistically, there is more chance of seeing Elvis alive than getting 100,000 signatures.
The case with the mech separate is the best idea yet, but would surely make many buyers believe that it is all that is avaliable and bid accordingly.
What's more, if we all rush to do it, ebay will be on to it in a heartbeat?
What does surprise me is the seemingly endless amount of 1/12th scale pinballs that are listed and yet no one has mentioned that might be a way round this stupid law?
Now, this is a bit tongue in cheek but, simply get a model of the machine you are trying to sell and list the model on ebay and mention how good the detail of the model is when stood alongside the real thing?
OK, bad idea, I guess, but if we all knew the model meant the real thing... It sounds daft but could it work??

[coppinpr]

I believe it is very sad the state of affairs that the antique slots are classed the same as the modern fruittys as far as the law is concerned.

Maybe as far as the law is concerned, but not Ebay. The modern machines that CAN be used to make money are NOT removed by ebay. There are hundreds on there - my main reason for thinking someone is stitching us up with collectible machines.

[andydotp]

Yes, be interesting to see if this one goes the distance,,, quick question though:

By the looks of some of the background pics, I would say he has a fairly sizeable collection.

eh? wot background pics?

Maybe as far as the law is concerned, but not Ebay. The modern machines that CAN be used to make money are NOT removed by ebay. There are hundreds on there - my main reason for thinking someone is stitching us up with collectible machines.

Back to buying a licence I guess Paul??

[gameswat]

I was looking for a tiny piece of antique ivory last year for a machine. I checked ebay but couldn't find anything. Turns out US eBay decided a few years back to stop selling it. But only took me a little while to figure out that the code word now is "antique bone"! I saw bone chess sets selling for thousands of dollars!!

[markymark]

I agree with coppinpr, it's really infuriating that thousands of modern current currency pub-style fruit machines are listed on ebay, but old vintage tatty one arm bandits are pounced on within seconds and removed!!!

I'm not convinced that ebay has a "fully" automated system for removal, otherwise it would be easy to have the software automatically search through the various Coin Operated categories, locate any Fruit Machine wording (or similar) and flag for removal. Being a system programmer myself, I know this automation could be very darn accurate! For this reason I am sure that there is someone out there who is deliberately "squealing" our vintage machines to eBay directly. I'm sure of it!

Just watch any "real world" auctions get more submissions in the future as we have no where else to sell!

Just my two pennies worth...

[slotalot]

For what it’s worth.... and, as always, I could be wrong.
When I started the petition up, I started putting listings on Ebay advertising the petition and asking people to sign it. At the start, Ebay said they were OK with the listing running, even though I had no product for sale, after all it was for their benefit as well Everything was fine for the first 2 months, then Ebay suddenly pulled the advert When I asked why they had pulled it after initially saying they were OK with it, they told me it had been flagged up as containing an outside link, which is against EBay rules. I pointed out that it had always contained an outside link to the petition from day one. They then came back and said “it might be that someone had objected to the post”, which I thought was a bit of a non committal statement . So maybe it is like it is on our forum - the answer or help you get depends on who you talk to on the day. Ebay will lay down ground rules for the Moderators to follow, but different mods might apply the rules in different ways. Maybe a new mod is looking after the slot machine section and being overzealous and bumping things he or she doesn’t really understand.

[markymark]

Hey here's a much better way of selling a slot on ebay.... Sell one of those monthly magazines that gives away a complete product.. but you only get one bit with each mag.. you know the ones I'm on about, build a model Titanic, but it takes about 2000 issues to get all the parts!

Sell a magazine with a FREE slot machine part with every issue, after a few years you'll have all the parts needed to build your own one arm bandit... Perfect Idea!!!!

Slot-Magazine.jpg (36.79 KiB) Viewed 5263 times

[johnnyo57]

The Sega listed on eBay strangely looks like the exact same machine as listed on Henry Powells site at £995
I don't expect this one to go the distance and will probabally have a deal done off eBay

[coppinpr]

I have bought from this seller before, twice. He's a good guy and a keen seller, rather than a collector.

[coppinpr]

Here's an idea!
Sell both the case and the mech, separately, but at the same time with a quite legal "see my other slot machine items" statement clearly stating they would work well together. Offer "reduced postage" for anyone buying both. Sell the case on ebay and the mech to the same guy who buys the case, pulling it at the same time as the case sells. Only selling parts that way - nothing wrong with that

[coppinpr]

I pointed out that it had always contained an outside link to the petition from day one. They then came back and said, “it might be that someone had objected to the post”

I've been selling machines on ebay with a plug for the forum for 3 months. Last week they pulled a machine of mine, "because it had an outside link". It HAS to be someone reporting us. It's not constant enough to be an automated thing, add to that the fact that modern machines don't get pulled and the fact that ebay admits most removed items are due to reports from other ebayers and it seems clear to me we are getting stuffed.

[andydotp]

Pardon my ignorance but I suggest we have two (possibly three) distinctly separate issues colliding here:
1, The Law as it stands,
2, ebay policy
(I'll get to 3 in a minute).
Am I right in thinking we can buy, sell, trade, swap, repair, restore and own coin-operated machines (whatever their age & denomination) as long as we obtain a permit from our respective Gaming Commissions? (Victoria is the same as UK except a permit is free, albeit discretionary depending on type & number of machines eg: the 'old time penny arcade' in Echuca where you could purchase old pennies and play the wall machines - profiteering but got a permit. My own permit for 20 slots but I was not allowed to place a 1929 Poinsettia in a locked glass cabinet in a mate's 'theme bar'.. ). We all acknowledge this is farcical and that The Law can indeed be 'an ass' - so we should keep striving with the e-petition and lobbying our respective mp's (it's worked in America Many times).
As for ebay's 'policy' with regard to slots, I along with others shake my head at all the modern fruit machines available - on legal currency and ready to plug in & play for profit when our historic penny and nickel-grinders and old seaside amusement machines are deemed off limits. That really is utterly nonsensical.
Sure, we may be able to get away with trading on ebay by auctioning off machines 'in parts' (buy this Mills handle for $2000 and I'll bolt it back onto the machine, buy these Bryans ball bearings but postage will be expensive when I send them wrapped in a Payramid).
Thirdly,,,, where does that leave our Market?,,,,,,
andydotp

[coppinpr]

Am I right in thinking we can buy, sell, trade, swap, repair, restore and own coin-operated machines (whatever their age & denomination) as long as we obtain a permit from our respective Gaming Commissions?

At the risk of dragging an already massive thread into another section, I'll try to answer the questions:

No, you are most definitely not right. The permit is one of the stupidest parts of the whole law. The permit is for only one machine which must be named and detailed. The application form is 12 pages long! The permit covers restoring, owning, repairing and selling that machine only, BUT you have to say which of these you want to do when you apply. If you wish to sell the machine, you need the life story of the buyer WHEN YOU APPLY but can't attempt to sell the machine in the first place unless you already have a permit

I believe a lot of the problems stem from the fact that the law was written in 1968 when our machines could and were still being used in money making arcades. In those days things changed so much slower. I can remember playing truly ancient machines on Brighton pier. All that has changed now - people want new and better things every year (like an I-phone ), so 50 year old machines have only an historical value.

I believe the easiest and most likely to succeed option for us is to amend the law very slightly to include a permit to own, restore and sell pre-decimal machines that have not been converted. The permit could be issued at a reasonable cost and be policed from within its own budget. I cannot see any problems for the Gambling Commission if they sanctioned this.

[slotalot]

I believe the easiest and most likely to succeed option for us is to amend the law

AT LAST!!!
This all the petition is about

[badpenny]

........... I cannot see any problems for the gaming commission if they sanctioned this.

The problem there is that like all bureaucratic offices THEY are not authorised to sanction anything - they merely enforce the law as set by government.

Have you ever tried negotiating with a Planning Officer because he is insisting an internal inspection cover must have a locked down gas tight gasket when three feet outside there is a loose covered manhole which physics dictate would always be first to release any build up of pressure?

What about explaining to a Traffic Cop that the reason you crossed over the white line was to maneuver around the badly parked vehicle?

You get a blank, disinterested face quoting the law verbatim.

I believe the easiest and most likely to succeed option for us is to amend the law

AT LAST!!!
This all the petition is about

If we ever get past the first hurdle and get it adopted by a government working party, that's when we'll see just how easy it isn't. It is however the only successful option.

Jeremy

[13rebel]

There was a German wall machine sold on ebay very recently that the seller had thrown off twice by ebay so he bought a permit and quoted the number in his listing. He assures me that he only had to quote the make and model of the machine and his address and that there was 'nothing on the permit to complete in respect to who I will sell the machine to'. The permit arrived in two weeks, was valid for one year from the date of issue and 'is hereby permitted to sell the above machine only'.

[andydotp]

The permit arrived in two weeks, was valid for one year from the date of issue and 'is hereby permitted to sell the above machine only'.

Well, that is in marked contrast to the advice coppinpr received. Does anybody have a copy of either the application form or a bona fide permit they could post as it might clarify things a little?
Not much point in me uploading my Victoria, Australia one for 20 machines but happy to if requested.
Also, as I said.....

Sure, we may be able to get away with trading on ebay by auctioning off machines 'in parts' (buy this Mills handle for $2000 and I'll bolt it back onto the machine, buy these Bryans ball bearings but postage will be expensive when I send them wrapped in a Payramid).
Thirdly,,,, where does that leave our Market?,,,,,,

andydotp

[coppinpr]

He assures me that he only had to quote the make and model of the machine and his address and that there was 'nothing on the permit to complete in respect to who I will sell the machine to'. The permit arrived in two weeks, was valid for one year from the date of issue and 'is hereby permitted to sell the above machine only'.

This is exactly what I'm in the process of doing, but strictly speaking it's not legal. I have the application form (anyone can download it from GC site). It's 12 pages long and requires detailed info on what exactly you are doing with the machine. You actually have to tick a box for every function you intend to use the permit for, repair, restore install (keep yourself) and supply (sell). To supply, you need the buyer's details FIRST.

The guide lines for filling in the application do state all this, but not clearly and use different terms from the form, making it confusing, which is, in my view, a good thing. I intend to get a permit for a Mills High Top and use it to sell as many Hi Tops as I can, until someone wants to check the permit against the machine. Then I'll buy another. The site has the strangest line, one I've never seen before - it says (as I remember it), "misuse of the permit could result in prosecution unless you have a good excuse. I do think the guidelines are not clear. I suspect this line is here so they can avoid expensive prosecution by giving you a slap on the wrist, first time!!

It could well be that the permit when it arrives does say you can sell it, but the application form and guidelines do not make this clear. In fact, just the opposite. Once again, that is why I'm applying for a permit. We need to know what the actual permit says on it.

One thing is for sure, it's not just name, address, and machine make. They wants lots of personal details, yet few details of the machine. I'm hoping to use this lack of details to sell machines, even at £25 per machine it would be OK IF it let you sell it.