Interesting items in upcoming auction...

[youngerap]

Oi, BP. I can assure you that I have never given any evidence on Queen (or any other rock band, for that matter). I just thought they were interesting items and in the spirit of this forum, thought maybe others might share that interest. Didn't know I had made a bit of a faux pas.

[badpenny]

No faux pas at all young man, be assured.

I did exactly the same thing myself about a year ago and received an email immediately from someone asking me to take it down as he was interested in going after it. I also remember a few years back a bit of a "how to do" on here because members were pointing out slot machines on eBay that were in the wrong category and others felt it was unsporting to point it out to the rest of us.

If it's on The Internet it's in the public domain.

TF's comment about us all pretending to ourselves that we're the only ones who know. Is bang on the mark.

A very entertaining thread I feel

BP

[jingle]

Nice one youngerap la

Now then tree frog
You were terrible for pointing auctions out
When you 1 st arrived on this site lad,
I stopped searching in the end
I just waited for you to put it on here

Now then were is my bank managers number

[youngerap]

Holy crap! Just looked at two 'similar' period machines in the States (a Caille Eclipsel and a Judge) and the guide prices are $60,000 - $120,000 and $21,000 - $42,000, respectively.

The American auction machines are clearly in restored condition, but I am starting to understand why one might wish to keep this Lot quiet....... price guide of £100-£150? Yeah, that is realistic!

[treefrog]

Ah Jingles how right you are.....my naive position in my early days on this site, I thought I was being helpful and posting every machine I found on here, actually it took me two years to clock on I was seriously pissing off other members collectors......der.....it took 20 emails, threats of debagging and unusual packages through the letter box to clock on this was not helpful.....now I am like everyone else....

Lets face it we are collectors and part of that is getting something everyone else does not have and the biggest appeal is the challenge... We are blee*ing addicts,lets face it and it is fun

[badpenny]

Addict! .... Who's an addict? I'm not ..... ok, I do a bit of slots now and again, but I can stop when I want ...... I've just got a bit of a cold at the moment.

[pennymachines]

I am starting to understand why one might wish to keep this Lot quiet.......

Yep. I reckon I know about 80% of what's going through the auctions, partly because I pay to know and partly thanks to a collector friend, far more diligent than myself at scouring the internet, who very kindly tips me off sometimes. The fact that I (and he) knew nothing of this sale until you posted it here, suggests it might otherwise have slipped through with only a handful of collectors in the game. It will, almost certainly, affect the hammer price, perhaps very significantly, when you consider this site is watched by collectors, here and overseas, many of whom are not members or active in the Forum, but are likely to be extremely interested in these rarities.

When it comes to collecting, only one thing can trump cash, and that's information.

Certainly, if I'd known about this one, I'd have been horrified to find it discussed here before sale day. That's not to say you did anything wrong - just to let you know (and, as a new collector, it's understandable you wouldn't) - you're bound to put some serious collectors' noses out of joint. Others would argue you did a good thing - namely, serious collectors who didn't know, the auction house and the lucky vendor who put them in a provincial saleroom with little or no reserves!

Next time this site goes offline for three weeks because "The website owner has not paid web hosting charges for the current month", it might mean Youngerap saw an odd machine called "Bumper" at his local village auction and wonders if...

[john t peterson]

Youngerap,

To tell or not to tell, that is the question. (Apologies to Willy S.) I unknowingly stepped on some serious toes almost 10 years ago when I discovered the Pansu Collection auction two days before it occurred and posted notice on our American coin-op site. Turns out several of the golden-heeled American collectors were attending and did not appreciate notice going out to the hoi polloi. My general rule of thumb is that the more who know, the better it is for the hobby. Unless I'm going to attend and want to keep the news under wraps, of course.

Self-serving, you ask? OF COURSE!

J Peterson
Generosity starts in the American home

[youngerap]

Well, two thoughts are bouncing around in my head about this subject: 1) I am disappointed that I might have denied a UK collector that chance to purchase a machine that, perhaps, they might never have thought would come their way. To them, I apologise. 2) I am not at all concerned about upsetting a 'serious' collector. Such a person should know the true value of this machine and I would expect them to a) expect competition at the auction and b) be prepared to pay for it.

I guess there is also a third thought, which is that I would guess the sellers of this machine do not know what they might have (or else they would have put a few shillings into some restoration work and whacked it into Christies). If they get a little windfall from this, all well and good.

For me, these were just interesting machines that I had not seen before.

[badpenny]

I have to correct you here Mr P.

The Bumper was a fortnight ago in a Table Top Sale, Park Hall Road Walsall.

[arrgee]

The Bumper was a fortnight ago in a Table Top Sale, Park Hall Road Walsall.

Dam - you got one as well BP.............. I guess that lowers the value of my three then

[badpenny]

No Arrgee I didn't buy it, I was the vendor.
No point in turning down thirty quid at today's fuel prices.

[pennymachines]

I am not at all concerned about upsetting a 'serious' collector. Such a person should know the true value of this machine and I would expect them to a) expect competition at the auction and b) be prepared to pay for it.

Ah, but there's the rub (apologies again to Willy S.) What do you suppose is the "true value"? I'm a serious collector (seriously addicted anyway), and I don't know. Imagine you'd kept mum, and competition was limited to the handful of collectors, like yourself, who succeeded in finding these (which, after all, were advertised and pictured online). I've no doubt the vendor would still be chuffed to bits at the prices, but how chuffed would the winning bidders be? Would they slink off, racked with guilt, knowing in their hearts they'd failed to pay the "true value"?

Imagine instead, all collectors posted all desirable machines for sale on this forum (great for website visitor stats, but somehow I can't see it happening). Then everyone would monitor the site and every machine would go directly to the highest bidder. "True value" would mean "more than all but one collector in the world is prepared to pay" and no amount of diligent research, knowledge, legwork or enthusiasm would make you a "serious collector", unless you were prepared (or could afford) to outbid all other collectors for every machine you bought. Whenever a really desirable machine surfaced, it would go directly to one of a handful of the wealthiest collectors in the world.

This I submit is the sort of jealous, secretive, cloak and dagger perspective to which you too will succumb, if you become as hard-bitten as I am.

Still no offers of knowledge for the Billiards Handan Ni machine. Anyone seen one before? I went through the patents on this site and found more than 6 Billiards related machines, none Handan and none similar to this.

The nearest I can find is Handan-Ni's Seven Arches of 1919 pictured in Chapter 7, Billiards And Pin Bagatelle of Nic Costa's Automatic Pleasures. This chapter is quite informative on the original coin-operated pinballs, some half a century before the great pinball craze of Depression America. He describes how "Bagatelle had, almost since its inception, played second fiddle to the mighty Billiards" and much early design impetus was directed at automating Billiards. The earliest he cites is German Billiards patented in 1893 by American, Charles Young. Also described and pictured is Haydon & Urry's Automatic Billiards of 1897. Bagatelle came to predominate because it was better suited to miniaturisation.

[bryans fan]

My feelings are similar to PM. I am not wealthy, and have limited funds available. The chance to buy a machine that is off the radar so to speak gives ordinary collectors like myself, and I suspect, most of this forum's members, the chance to obtain nice machines at an affordable price. There are a few very wealthy collectors who will always outbid the ordinary "man in the street".
For this reason, I would suggest that we keep things to ourselves until after the auction has taken place.
A thousand pounds, for example, is still a great deal of money to me, and would require a lot of soul searching to justify spending such an amount. I have collected for about 20 years, and have driven home from an auction on more than one occasion with a prized machine in the boot, and a sick feeling in my stomach at having paid too much!
Just try telling one of your friends how much you paid for a wormed wooden box with a few knobs on it and some rusty metal work inside, and you will soon find out that the rest of society think we are mad!
What is its true value??? What someone is willing to pay.

[arrgee]

What is its true value??? What someone is willing to pay

What is 'value'

Some people will spend the equivalent cost each year of a damn good allwin or bandit on a season ticket just to sit on a cold windy Premier league terrace watching 22 blokes kick a ball around, and at the end of the season what do they have? Others will spend at least that per year on booze and fags - so it's horses for courses, as they say.

If I pick up a machine at a 'snip' then that's great, but if I really want a machine and it's a high cost I don't think it's not worth the value, I think how much do I want it, then make a decision based upon 'can I afford it'. For me Value does not enter into the equation, it's such a nebulous word anyway.

[youngerap]

Good grief! I started this by thinking these were interesting machines! My thanks to those who have contributed (politely, too!) and have opened my eyes to an aspect of this hobby that had never occurred to me.

I think I shall take Bryans Fan's advice and not comment on the contents of active auctions in future. Probably safer that way.....

[gameswat]

I think I shall take Bryans Fan's advice and not comment on the contents of active auctions in future. Probably safer that way.....

....and cheaper! Probably won't sink in fully until you're well and truly addicted and this happens to something you plan to bid on and can't live without.

[badpenny]

I think we should have a sticky on Announce advising everyone when they first come here about topics which crop up time and time again and add this one to it: -
We could cover........
* I have a machine to sell but can't be bothered to comply with The Market rules so am going to pretend to merely ask for a valuation.
* I've just bought my first bandit and nothing works, does it need more grease?
* Why do Ebay keep removing my auction for a gambling bandit machine?
* How do I post a picture/video/link
* What do you mean it's illegal to sell a slot machine?
* Is it ok to tell everyone of something interesting I've stumbled upon for sale?

What others can you think of? There must be more that the majority seem to fall foul of.

BP

[john t peterson]

I've found a machine that I'm thinking of buying; what is it worth? (And variations on the theme: What is it worth??)

[jingle]

Looks like youngerap
As been bullied in to deleting the
Links to the machine

Well I think you done the right thing
Advertising them here
And the wrong thing deleting them

You are obviously a new collector
And prob have a few allwins and bandits
But see something online that probably isn't going
To fit in your collection,which there is nothing wrong with that
I done the same when I started,,so what's wrong in sharing info
On a site that you visit everyday,,
You probably didnt want any of us to mis out

So you put it here,,well keep up the good work son

And if your looking for a certain machine for your
Collection
Drop me a line,I may just be getting rid of one