Ebay & Gambling Commission

[slotalot]

This One once the Auction and Market get fixed??

[spintop]

Topic merged - site admin.

Buying and selling slot machines on ebay seems to be getting more difficult as the weeks go by. Just a few things I have noticed recently on their website:
More machines now being removed by ebay daily, more than ever before.
Crack down on selling slot machines, licence rules I guess to blame for this.
It appears there's dirty tatics with ebayers reporting machines to get them removed, then contacting the sellers offering low offers for their machine. I know this for a fact, it's happened to me during the last few months on a number of machines I have tried to sell.

From a good place to buy & sell it's sad to see ebay is now slowly turning into a dodgy chancers backstreet dealing auction site for slot machines. It's tough for buyers as well, who are biddng on a machine and really wanting it, then finding out the auction has been removed on day six of a seven day auction (time wasting, very frustrating for bidders & the seller).

Whatever you put in the listing details now, like 'slot removed', 'does not pay out', etc., you just don't know if your slot machine will make it to the end of the auction listing any more, and if you try and relist your machine, ebay state your account could be suspended. What a nice world we live in!

[doofus]

Easily solved with Buy It Now

[arrgee]

Easily solved with Buy It Now

and most of them with stupidly high asking prices.

[slotalot]

I am thinking outside the box again , not always a good thing! But if Ebay got a gaming licence, would that not solve the problem? After all, auction houses must have one to cover sellers that don’t...

[toibs]

How about just stating "gaming licence @£25 available to allow sale of this machine as per UK regulations"... Doesn't mean that you have to have one there and then..... Well, I know it's not strictly honest. However, if they will insist on pulling things...

[spintop]

How much would a gaming licence cost ebay? Is there such a thing as a licence for selling a large number of machines? I wonder what the total annual turnover of slot machines, also fruit and amusement machines and basically just about anything with a coin slot on ebay is. Remember, they get 10% selling fees plus starting fees, 'Buy It Now' fees, reserve price fees and paypal fees on some of the machines sold. Just wondering how Henry Powell is able to sell on ebay without a problem. I don't think his auctions state 'I have a gaming licence' and they never seem to be removed??

[toibs]

I spoke to the Commission a few weeks ago. Basically if you are a "trader" then it's around £900ish. However if you have the odd machine or two, then it's £25 for a licence for EACH machine.... Doesnt matter if it's Current legal tender or pre-decimal - applies to both....

[treefrog]

Even the Powells are affected. Terrence Powell had a fantastic Jennings Peacock on Ebay last night, it really was the nuts..... but gone this morning and not ended by the seller. They make machines for commercial and private use, so probably have the best credentials possible, although did not state his license number in the text.

In terms of people contacting ebay to get auctions ended, interestingly, I had watched a machine a few weeks ago that disappeared and contacted the seller, who told me a person told ebay about his auction being illegal and then rang him to make an offer. Not sure how he knew the seller knew he had done this, but people will try anything.....

Is ebay good or bad for the hobby....I have read over the years some people on this site who will not trust using it and want to view machines etc etc, but I guess it provides a much wider audience to the hobby, which small private auctions never will, so on that basis, 'yes' and would limit availability of machines to people. I have to admit though, the top quality machines rarely come up on ebay and I think real auctions even with commission can be a better deal.....

I asked an auction house about needing a license and they did not possess one or planned to. Not sure they need one anyway as they are not the owners. The seller is until bought, auctions act as agents to the transaction.... (I await corrections on this statement from all, especially those managing the Coventry auction).

[raj]

I've just put some Jennings castings on ebay & straight away I got the 'refered to invigilator' message. It seems the robot looks at every sale in the coin operated section & then decides if it requires looking at.
My assumption is that there are spoilers out there, who may well have paid out good money for a full licence, trying to act as enforcers on the rest, or simply some saddo with nothing better to do.
Ebay simply follow the rule of law if they think they might get leaned on.

The Gaming Commision website has a search facility where you can look up who has a licence or check the claimed licence number and I have checked on quite a few dealers who have no licence, & others who claim to have one & don't.

So, at the end of the day, it's a balance between acting inside the law, as it is interpreted by ebay, and being able to describe a slot accurately and truthfully.

Perhaps on the next 'free weekend' there were a rather large number of odd silly items with 'coin operated' or 'slot machine' in the description entered. It might make a difference to the way ebay react, or would they just take it out against those entering items?

This comment should not be construed as a call to subversive action, simply an observation. I have no wish to be transported to the colonies to answer for e-crimes with the Homeland Security thought police.

[badpenny]

Even the Powells are affected. Terrence Powell had a fantastic Jennings Peacock on Ebay last night, it really was the nuts..... but gone this morning and not ended by the seller. They make machines for commercial and private use, so probably have the best credentials possible, although did not state his license number in the text.

In terms of people contacting ebay to get auctions ended, interestingly, I had watched a machine a few weeks ago that disappeared and contacted the seller, who told me a person told ebay about his auction being illegal and then rang him to make an offer. Not sure how he knew the seller knew he had done this, but people will try anything.....

Is ebay good or bad for the hobby....I have read over the years some people on this site who will not trust using it and want to view machines etc etc, but I guess it provides a much wider audience to the hobby, which small private auctions never will, so on that basis, 'yes' and would limit availability of machines to people. I have to admit though, the top quality machines rarely come up on ebay and I think real auctions even with commission can be a better deal.....

I asked an auction house about needing a license and they did not possess one or planned to. Not sure they need one anyway as they are not the owners. The seller is until bought, auctions act as agents to the transaction.... (I await corrections on this statement from all, especially those managing the Coventry auction).

I once had the S,H,ONE,T scared out of me a few years previously when a live slot auction and collectors' fair was due to be run at one of my pubs. I never got to the bottom of it, but the local bobby who enjoyed a Winter's drink told me that a complaint had reached their ears about my forthcoming event. Personally they weren't bothered, but would have to react. The likelihood was they would interrupt the proceedings and if they weren't happy with the reaction of the assembled gentlemen to their closing it down then they would confiscate the said machines for which there were no permits. The thought of having a merry band of angry collectors on my hands who had just seen their pride and joy(s) removed by force didn't fill me full of glee. I cancelled the event that time.

When Jerry and I started the Coventry auction the law had changed again. I applied to the Commission who merely required a list and description of the machines we were auctioning on behalf of their owners. I think the paperwork took me a couple of days to complete. It stopped us from accepting any late entries but seemed to be based on common sense. The second year I requested the paperwork well in advance and was told it would cost £20 per machine, they would require maker, model, serial number full personal details of the vendor and likewise the new owner ..... gulp! If we were handling more than a few machines they may decide to send along a representative to observe and we would be invoiced for his services, costs and expenses as well. Crazy!

Yes anyone currently running a live auction requires the necessary permission, permits relating to what they are selling.
Which is why Jerry and I quickly decided to take the financial hit and get covered with everything we needed to ensure you and your machines are secure and legal when dealing with us.

[toibs]

I've just checked on the website and whilst I can find the £977 operators licence and the £3xx personal licence, I can't find any mention of the £25 per machine thing I was referred to. I'll call them again tomorrow to get a proper clarification of where, and what it refers to again, complete with links to the docs required....

[raj]

Do I need a licence - gaming machines (fruit machines, slot machines)?
will take you to the page, half way down are the links to our interest.
Personally I would be happy to pay a reasonable fee, if it covered how the hobby is conducted, however that day seems to be a long way off, so we remain in a poor situation waiting for the first conviction to get a test case, or some common sense to prevail.

[raj]

After 5 hours, ebay have listed my castings (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/JENNINGS-CLUB ... 3cc2a98f73) but the creepy way it happened was, if I searched for the item, by number it looked as if it was on ebay, but it was not in the sub section. It was only because there were no views in the whole world except my other IDs that it showed up as unlisted... Sneaky or what!

[toibs]

Do I need a licence - gaming machines (fruit machines, slot machines)?
will take you to the page, half way down are the links to our interest.
Personally I would be happy to pay a reasonable fee, if it covered how the hobby is conducted, however that day seems to be a long way off, so we remain in a poor situation waiting for the first conviction to get a test case, or some common sense to prevail.

You got it...
Documentation:
http://www.gamblingcommission.gov.uk/pd ... 202007.pdf

Forms :
http://www.gamblingcommission.gov.uk/pd ... 202007.pdf

It states £25 for the licence. According to the Commission, it's one of these that you need to be able to sell the machine, legally, since you would be licenced to keep it, and therefore licenced to sell it.

Paul

[markymark]

Topic merged - site admin.

Just wanted to add my gripe with ebay... I'm somewhat puzzled by the fact that on one hand ebay are saying they are being strict on selling gaming machines.... but why are there hundreds of Fruit Machines (pub style electronic) always listed non stop... and still lots of mechanical one arm bandits? Just really puzzled.. Either kick every single one off the site, rather than being selective.

As for a solution, just wondered if I register for an American .com ebay account, could I list the machine thru there, and tick the box to have it appear on searches from other ebay sites? Namely the UK one!!! Would the UK ebay overlook the machine due to it being originally listed via USA? Just a thought!!!!!!!

[coppinpr]

Usually if I want to sell in the USA, I simply sell the item on ebay,com by signing in with my UK name and most times it sets up as a USA sale in dollars. I did that two weeks ago and it worked.
The UK ebay re movables are almost certainly computer generated with the system looking for key words or phrases. Many get flagged and many do not. I use a template I used for a slot machine that was successful. I simply change the machine details, price etc. and leave the rest as is and it always works fine. Never pulled (so far).

[raj]

Ebay are getting paranoid about slots. 2 of mine were pulled in spite of loads of disclaimers, sold as spares etc. However, this example may be the way forward. Let the eyes do all the work using youtube:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/260963328684?ss ... 1438.l2648

[slider]

I'd say video is defo the way to go as opposed to stills anyday, especially if it also at all wrong-foots ebay's over zealous computer monkey/bot to boot... hehehe

The more details the better would also be good, side shots, inside shots, cabinet and castings condition + paint job, the mech seen yanked and in situ etc etc, maybe also with a commentary would be nice, and of course good lighting (smile) all of which could only ultimately help to sell one's machines anyway by making them appear more life-like and in-scale?

E.g. i dunno who he is, plus kudos to ya mate for doing them, but the guy who does these allwin vids, has (plus adds) i'd say a very nice touch to them with his interested + rather enthusiastic commentaries (dig the accent too heh) which if added to any sale item would, i'm sure, almost guarantee a lot of extra interest in it, especially from people not in the business (punters heh) who aren't as familiar with some of these machines but who'd be hooked by seeing them in action, thus generating better/higher prices for the seller(s)







enjoy

[treefrog]

Topic merged - site admin.

Bit of an old subject, but they really are tightening up on slot sales at the moment. I use to see the occasional machine come up with the below warning, but now am seeing a lot of posted machines with the threat. It has put me off and I suspect others and for those who don't care are going to get bargains. A very honest looking Sega Hi Top just finished for 181 pounds... all it needed was a proper escalator and jackpot all of which I have, but been put off....... I am intrigued if this threat is real....

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/261061636120? ... 429wt_1165