Discuss our on-site auctions and other slot machine auctions.
User avatar
jimmy55
Posts: 331
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2012 9:07 pm
Location: Sheringham, norfolk UK
Contact:

A letter to eBay UK?

Postby jimmy55 » Tue Dec 17, 2013 9:26 am

Following on from the Mills thread ...auctiongate, and numerous other discussions on the subject.
Would it be a good idea to send a mass letter to eBay UK asking for clarification .....it may not work but may raise the issue in their mind if enough people write ....just a discussion point. I hope I have the CEO names right but that can be checked I am sure.

Dear Ms Gilmartin
I am writing to you as one of a group of collectors in the hope of clarifying the situation regarding antique and collectable fruit machines and one arm bandits and their current treatment under eBays listing policies.
The machines in question are in general mechanical and operating on pre decimal coinage and therefore purely of interest within a collection or a collectors home. Quite often the machines are of significant value and highly sought after and would offer eBay UK significant revenue when sold.
At the moment listings of these machines are routinely terminated by eBay and rarely remain listed for a full sale period. Strangely more modern electronic fruit machines seem to be allowed to run their full course even when sold by individuals who do not hold Gambling Commission Licenses.
I would be grateful if you could clarify why there is this difference in treatment and whether listings are cancelled automatically ( robot ) or after human intervention following a report to eBay UK by an individual as there is clearly a discrepancy between the treatment of the two groups.
Discussions are underway currently between representatives of our hobby and the Gambling Commission who have indicated a desire to free these collectable machines from the bureaucracy which attaches to bona fide gaming machine.
We are hoping that you can provide clarification of why eBay is treating collectable machines in this way.
Yours ...........

coin-op
Forum Moderator
Posts: 512
Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2004 6:23 pm
Location: England
Contact:

Re: a letter to eBay UK?

Postby coin-op » Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:56 am

Although an interesting idea and it may clarify quite why ebay remove items, apparently with a less than even handed approach, the fact will remain that without a licence, the sale of machines is technically within the scope of current legislation. Therefore, whether ebay itself picks up on, or treats differently older machines rather than more modern , commercially viable machines, or someone is purposely notifying ebay due to their own agenda, I do not see that ebay will enact a policy which sees it knowingly facilitate the sale of older machines outside the ambit of existing legislation. So, you might establish why it happens, but it seems to me that it will not avoid it happening.

User avatar
jimmy55
Posts: 331
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2012 9:07 pm
Location: Sheringham, norfolk UK
Contact:

Re: a letter to eBay UK?

Postby jimmy55 » Tue Dec 17, 2013 11:12 am

If eBay are happily ignoring the law for later machines and we can get to the root cause of the discrepancy, then in theory it should be equal treatment for all machines. All I would hope to clarify is if an individual is the cause of the problem and bring it to the attention of senior management at eBay, who would hopefully see he has an agenda for his actions.( If he exists )

aristomatic
Posts: 825
Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2009 8:13 pm

Re: a letter to eBay UK?

Postby aristomatic » Tue Dec 17, 2013 11:37 am

A very sensible post coinop. In addition, whilst the law remains as it is, then it's very simple - if you want to sell a machine on ebay, buy a permit, it stays on. Want to sell more than one? Then get 3 permits per 12 months.

I signed the petition, as I don't want to have to apply for permits, but that's what you need to do. I have had a number of listings removed because they breach ebay policy. It's frustrating, but that's the policy and the policy is driven by the law. It is clear from the discussions that took place that nothing is going to change in the near future, ref the law.

So I now have a permit for my next machine. It's a bit of a pain filling in the form and posting it off and it takes a while to come back and it costs £25 a time, but that's the system, as it is, with the law as it stands now, and if I want to list another machine, then I'll just apply for another permit.

There's also this site's November auction & the Elephant House ones too. In addition, the prices realised by the auction houses with online bidding, even with their hefty commissions, seem to currently at least, be as good a route to achieving a strong result, without any permit or feedback issues or indeed without any comeback with regard to working condition or parts missing or worn.

GP

coin-op
Forum Moderator
Posts: 512
Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2004 6:23 pm
Location: England
Contact:

Re: a letter to eBay UK?

Postby coin-op » Tue Dec 17, 2013 11:46 am

Thank you aristomatic. I do think that Jimmy 55's proposal is worthy of debate and I'm not looking to shoot it down or appear unduly negative. I had drafted the following reply before your own posting.

What is clear is that ebay do act to remove a fair number of older machines and as I have said, my thoughts are that this is due to the actions of an individual rather than ebay itself. If this is correct, then ebay are not actively monitoring machines, but do have a definite position when confronted with a complaint. I cannot see that ebay will take a stand to refuse to accept a genuine issue raised concerning a possible licence infringement just because the informer seems pro-active. To do so would require ebay to 'switch off' their response team in connection with fundamentally valid issues. Therefore, the possible result of a letter could be that ebay take a firmer view regarding listings of any machines. If ebay itself are positively monitoring older machines and not newer ones, which seems illogical to me, then the result of contacting them would likely be to place newer machines on the same footing as older machines and not to change their approach to older machines. My reasoning for this is set out in my previous post, but to reiterate, is based on the assumption that as a large company, ebay see no merit in operating in conflict with local legislation.

I would add that I am not wanting to appear unduly negative in my comments, but I do think that ebay will act to ensure they are on a firm, legal footing.

marktol
Posts: 397
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 2:20 pm
Location: Southampton
Contact:

Re: A letter to eBay UK?

Postby marktol » Tue Dec 17, 2013 12:19 pm

Hi,

I still firmly believe that it's not just machines being reported. Having had many listing violations in the past, I have the following observations:-

depending on the category you use and key words in the title, you may get a prompt coming up when you are creating your listing saying that certain items are prohibited or need a permit etc. These items I believe go into some kind of quarantine before the listing is live and gets reviewed by a real live person somewhere. My rationale for this is:-

they don't show up in the search results for 4-6 hours
items that trigger this process that are legit are left and go live eventually - usually after 4-6 hours
items that breach their policy - machines with no permit number get removed before they ever appear in search results. Nobody could report a machine and have it removed that quickly

When I've listed things that don't get the prompt, they appear in the search results immediately, even if they would breach the policy.

I also think that once you have had a policy breach on your account your listings go under more scrutiny anyway - as the occasional machines that do slip though and complete tend to be from one-timer ebayers who just have the old machine that's sat in the garage forever to clear off.

I agree that it may be worth asking ebay for clarification, however the pessimist in me says - A we will probably never get a decent answer and B - actually it's not likely to change the behavior we see - other than perhaps it may mean 'fruit machines' get removed as well.

Just my thoughts.

Mark

User avatar
pennymachines
Site Admin
Posts: 4962
Joined: Wed Nov 06, 2002 12:12 am
Location: The Black Country
Contact:

Re: a letter to eBay UK?

Postby pennymachines » Tue Dec 17, 2013 12:50 pm

aristomatic wrote:There's also this site's November auction...
I should perhaps point out that although the Coventry auction is promoted and advertised here (as are other slot machine auctions), Pennymachines.co.uk has no financial or organisational involvement with it.

User avatar
jimmy55
Posts: 331
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2012 9:07 pm
Location: Sheringham, norfolk UK
Contact:

Re: A letter to eBay UK?

Postby jimmy55 » Tue Dec 17, 2013 1:04 pm

Coin op ....I completely take your point about newer machines being likely victims. I just wonder, and would love to know the reason why, eBay treat them differently, but in reality it will remain one of life's mysteries.

Mark, like you I have always thought it was more of an automatic process than the result of human intervention, but with coppinpr's info.and the lack of consistency in the treatment by ebay, I'm swayed to believe it may be human. Again, if you don't ask the question you won't get an answer but I think the consensus has always been to leave well alone.

aristomatic
Posts: 825
Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2009 8:13 pm

Re: A letter to eBay UK?

Postby aristomatic » Tue Dec 17, 2013 1:41 pm

jimmy55 wrote:I think the consensus has always been to leave well alone.
Indeed, as ebay may just decide to prohibit slot machines regardless of whether you have a single machine permit or a full licence and that's hardly a promising scenario......

However, then there is always the November vintage amusement auction held in Coventry, that is promoted and advertised here, (along with other slot auctions).
(Error duly noted Mr pennymachines and thank-you for clarifying matter above).

GP

User avatar
slotalot
Posts: 1823
Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 1:53 pm
Location: Halifax West Yorkshire
Contact:

Re: A letter to eBay UK?

Postby slotalot » Tue Dec 17, 2013 2:42 pm

Hi !SURRENDER!
For what it is worth, I think that Ebay is just too big and has so many moderators that it largely down to luck :!?!:
When I was at the helm of the good ship Penny Petition, yes the one that sank with all hands xX><Xx
I started putting listings on Ebay asking for people to support our petition by signing it, and to be able to do this I did get permission from one of Ebay's moderators. He/she told me it wasn't a problem, and everything was OK for about 6 to 8 weeks, when the listing got removed. I also got an email telling me that if I posted it again, I could be banned from Ebay. I replied to that mod saying that I had been told it was OK to put the post on Ebay. I was then told that that particular moderator had used bad judgement in telling this was OK, and I was breaking the rules.
So I think a lot of it is just down to what sort of a day that particular moderator is having, and they have to be seen to be doing something for their money. !TAPTAP!


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 1 guest