Coventry Auction Sunday 22nd March 2015

[badpenny]

Good comments all round, thanks.

However we're still hearing "Whats" and not "Hows"

It is tempting to say "That's the way we run it, if you're not happy don't bother coming" However I do believe 99% of you all are well meaning and offer your suggestions not solely from a "What's in it for me" angle.
So I shall share a few lessons we have learnt the hard way, how many other sales events would do that?

Paying before the auction is finished and leaving with your new toys = Elected Members of Parliament reflect the needs of their constituents.
It's an ideal and very easy to say..

Paying and leaving before the end.
The person inputting onto the laptop needs to be close to the auctioneer because the sheets need to be passed manually. It's too distracting for everybody in the room to have others up there talking. Not acceptable.
The more observant will notice occasions when reference needs to be made back to the auctioneer to clarify something, so sitting anywhere else only causes added work. Plus of course would be a security worry. The system is interrogating several spreadsheets continuously, in order to work out somebody's account the system needs to be closed down and restarted in a different mode, and then restarted back in input mode to continue updating. Guess what's going to happen then? ..... yup another early leaver is going to pop along with the vendor in tow who's going to want their money also, which is yet another different part of the system. This is really not practicable whilst the auction is continuing, plus we'd now be several sheets behind in the update, what are the chances then of somebody wanting to pay and the details are on one of the sheets awaiting input? Very high I'd guess. Far too much aggravation for everyone.

Taking a break half way.
As I said we tried this maybe three times if I remember correctly. Despite the fact we pointed out to everyone that to do so would mean closing the account .... "so only do so if you're leaving" it merely caused a mountain of additional work. We'd obviously been making our announcements in Vietnamese. Also remember that although we're not an auction house we do need to make as many sales as possible. What's in it for us to discourage impulse bidding? Be honest, who amongst us hasn't suddenly thrown a bid at an item we originally had no intention of buying? Would you want to then be told, "No, you can't bid, you're no longer registered" ?

Things are always more complicated than appear, and are done for a reason.
We want an easy enjoyable day, and so do you, the word is "Compromise" if that's not good enough for you, you have options.
One of which of course is run your own auction, JC and I can then have a Sunday off.

BP

[slotsoffun]

Hear everything you say...
But it sounds like the computer system needs setting up. If your using Excel (or similar) I don't understand the "having to restart" to view different aspects during the auction?
Most of the main arguments seem to be around the inconvenience of the current way the program is used or set up, but then I'm looking at the software side of things because that's my job, a developer of Microsoft applications.

[pennymachines]

Full results with pictures now in the Arena.

[badpenny]

Probably a capital investment in a new laptop plus dedicated software, and another networked laptop to allow different activities to happen while results are inputted, oh and another somebody to be drive that one would do the trick. All for one or two days a year.

Looks like commission is now going up to 15%

In the 1990s when I was working with Derby Chamber of Commerce I was on a team funded by The DTI encouraging small companies to embrace the quality standards of BS 5750 (precursor to ISO 9001) We'd encouraged a family owned business that employed 12 to be the first in The East Midlands to spend 18 months going for accreditation.
Upon successfully passing their final audits The Chamber set up a public presentation with TV and local radio in attendance.
The MD tuned up on his own to receive the certificate, in his acceptance speech he told us all that due to everybody concentrating so hard on the procedures, policies and operating systems for BS 5750 they'd all forgotten that they came to work each day to make and sell Left Handed Metric Hammers. Consequently they'd gone bust, Quality Accreditation achieved ... 15 people out of work.

[bryans fan]

I have been pondering this topic on a walk to the village to get a paper, and have put on my thinking cap, just as well as its raining!

Jeremy asks for" HOWS" so here goes.

I regard the Event as a chance to meet people and talk. I use the paying in and out queueing time to chat. Before the Auction I am looking at lots, during the auction I concentate on what is being sold, after the auction is the time to chat, or get off home if you can. Name badges is certainly worth considering.
This is a "one off " yearly event mostly, at a hired venue, so the paying in and out of cash suits both vendor and buyer. Where else does this happen? Remember this is an event organised purely voluntarily by the two J`s. This is a minority hobby and I feel always will be.
Unless the vendors choose to be paid by cheque after the auction, I cannot see anything obvious to reduce the queueing.
The area ripe for improvement is in the "marketing" for want of a better word.
The Auction is usually annual, we all have weeks to prepare, so it always annoys me that we get the catalogue a few days before the event. Leaving little time to decide on wether to attend or not.
Jerry has all our email addresses, so I think a block send to all interested parties leading up to the event, would help tremendously, both in getting lots promised and in creating an air of excitement before the event, with tasters of what has been entered. Regular updating of the lots already entered, with pictures where possible in the lead up to the Auction on Jerrys website as well as PennyMachines creates a buzz.
Unlike the rest of the eccentric millionaires who attend, I have to spend a bit of time getting cash in order to bid, so knowing whats been entered, and getting the catalogue earlier would be helpful.
Would it pay to put an advert for the event in the local Coventry newspaper?

It would be such a shame for this event to cease to be.

[bryans fan]

Full results with pictures now in the Arena.

I was surprised to see how badly the bandit spares did, many remaining unsold. If only there were similar amounts of Bryans spares!

[aristomatic]

https://pennymachines.co.uk/arena/vaa-22-03-2015/
Thanks for that - some interesting pricing.

[coppinpr]

My final comment on the auction this year.
As I said earlier, there are things that can be done and things that (although would be good) can't, and BP's answer seems to agree with this. The easiest and most likely things to improve would seem to be in advance of the auction (earlier catalogues, better advertising etc.)

As to BP's comment "we are still hearing what's rather than hows", first I don't think that is strictly true, although I do suspect comments tend to be a little tentative because of what's happened in the past. When people make remarks about the auction they tend to
(a) get shouted at (don't say this has never happened - it has, and SOMETIMES with good reason),
(b) get threatened with "OK we won't do it again",
(c) get told why their ideas won't work.

(a) and (c) are sometimes justified, but not always. Often they are used like (b) just to shut down the idea. For example, in past auctions (not the latest) we have been angrily told that there is more than enough work to do already without us asking for more things then when members offer free help they are quickly told help is not wanted(?)
We love the auction and would hate to lose it. Perhaps that is why we like to comment on it so much, but the replies we get are sometimes as as bad as some comments and there is always, and I think others will agree, an underlying feeling that none of our ideas will ever be considered anyway.
If it stays as it is. I'll be happy, but that doesn't mean it couldn't or shouldn't improve.
I know the two "J's" only slightly but hope I can call them friends and that they realise that mine, and all the comments above, are meant in a positive way, because we don't want to lose that auction...ever.

[aristomatic]

I noticed there were a number of passed lots in the results, in the Arena. Can someone confirm - if a lot doesn't sell, is there a charge to the seller? If so, is this a fixed fee or percentage of the reserve, or is there no charge, as I may decide to enter a few machines in the auction later in the year.
Thanks,
GP.

[badpenny]

I noticed there were a number of passed lots in the results, in the Arena. Can someone confirm - if a lot doesn't sell, is there a charge to the seller? If so, is this a fixed fee or percentage of the reserve, or is there no charge, as I may decide to enter a few machines in the auction later in the year.
Thanks,
GP.

There is no charge to enter lots.
There is no charge for lots that don't reach reserve.

BP

[aristomatic]

Thanks for that. I will endeavour to enter some slots for November then.

GP

[jukeboxjury]

It appears that my initial comment has caused a bit of a debate, which is a good thing. BP's paragraph by paragraph dissecting of my original comment was not really a true reflection of what I said but I can't really be bothered to get into the semantics.

All I will say is I have read all the various comments for and against changes, and it is pretty clear to me that what ever suggestions are made they will fall on deaf ears.

My final comments on this mater is, Steve at Elephant House runs the whole show with the help of just two other people every month. He deals with commission bids, takes money at the same time, runs the computer, produces invoices, and will pay you out on the day if you ask. He will send you your money by bank transfer or by cheque or cash the next time you see him, what ever you want.

It's is obvious to ME that the people running Coventry have no desire for change. "Can't change" "Wont change" "It's the wrong venue" "If you don't like it go some where else" "Start your own" "It's not practical", "It's to difficult", "The computer says no" etc etc. THAT IS FINE and it's clear to me that you don't want to change. I wish you well in the future, it's a shame that you have lost me and I suspect you have lost many others along the way by the dog in the manager attitude that is shown if anyone dares to criticize or suggests that you should make changes. I was attached to the British Forces for many years and always remember two comments that were made on many occasions by NCO's and Officers. 1. Don't keep telling me about your problems, just give me solutions. 2. Adapt and overcome. "Keep on Collecting"

[bryans fan]

I repeat my original point that Steve Hunt is running a business, holding numerous auctions a year, and is doing it to earn money. J & J are holding a mostly one off annual event as a way of keeping the hobby alive.

Having slept on the topic, despite someone stealing an hour whilst I was asleep , I did want to add one further point. It occurs to me that the Coventry Auction can only go ahead if Jerry gets lots submitted, I notice from his previous posts people are often late in submitting lots for the sale. So we all play a part in making Coventry a success.
I think that`s it from me on this subject. I want the Auction to continue.

[panda999]

Interesting stuff re Elephant House multi tasking is great! and always close to 100 lots an hour! Yes we agree this is an auction for profit as any business likes to do, there is room for both in this hobby and I'm glad to see a good selection of items at Coventry as it's only once or twice a year and it does need to look at itself to try to please its patrons. I hope the vendors do turn up with items promised in the future as 'no shows' reflect on the event. All I can say to end on - it must really wind people up when Mr H buys a lot, sticks it in his auction and makes a really good price! Still it's always a vendor's choice!

[badpenny]

I'll make you all a promise.

If you get the submission forms back before the final due date it'll be marketed better.
For without knowing what vendors are bringing we can't tell you.

We start to publicise forthcoming auctions at least two months in advance and we give you a cut off date approximately 10 days to a fortnight before the event, in order to allow us to print the catalogue, finalise the website and construct the IT system.

I'll take last week's event as an average example of what really happens, and has been happening since the very first one we did.

*Three weeks following distribution of the submission forms we'd had back ...... one! Lots of vague promises, but only one submission form.

* Even when we have a collection disposal to tempt you with, it still seems to result in numerous physical meetings with the vendor to persuade them to actually decide which of their lifelong babies to let go of. And on the day do they actually bring them all? Their property their decision.

* We get past the "due date" and have three more forms back. I've booked twelve tables and we have got promised lots to fill one. You figure if it's worth shoving that on the website. Also we have 6 photos. This isn't an auction it's a Classified Advert.

*By now we should be at the printer. JC and I have been on the phone for about a fortnight now ringing our contacts to remind them time is marching on. We're guilty of bullying friends while they are trying to help us, yet it's going to be a long way down their list of life priorities. Usually they promise to phone us back within 24 hours to confirm what they'll submit. Generally they don't, they have lives to live.

*This year I failed to harass even one machine out of my contacts. JC does better, however, as a reward for his success he now has to drive a total of 375 miles (over a few days) around The Southern Counties to collect the said machines. Upon doing so he discovers not only unrealistic reserves (which means he will have to drive them back and deliver them home again after failing to sell) but most of them don't work, so he has to find the time to fettle them. This is Wed/Thurs and the event is Sunday.

* On the day we play "What's going to turn up?" Generally speaking they all do. I can only think over the years of a couple of times we've been let down. This year in Coventry and once in Sarratt when the vendor was nobbled in the car park and sold before anything even got into the hall.

I'm not playing the bleedin' heart card.
We always say "It's your day, we couldn't do it without you" So I believe you deserve a bit of feedback yourselves.
My partner in grime JC probably will be disappointed with me being so public about what goes on behind the scenes, but that's because he's more professional than I am and after 12 years as a publican I have less patience.

We talk about supporting the hobby, I for one am worried about losing my collection, this year I put in two of my own machines (again) I had no intention of selling, they were keepers. However we had so few machines 10 days before the event I felt I had to. I didn't do what many others would have done which is put stupidly high reserves on them so they wouldn't sell as I feel that is fraud. They did sell I have the money but I'm down two machines. JC has been doing this as well.

As for "Carry on Collecting" and how quickly EH do it? It's not a Sid James farce, all power to EH, we don't believe it's a race it's a day out. If it doesn't fit your need of hurtling in, buying and hurtling home again then of course we'll lose you. You might think it's a shame I couldn't possibly comment. If you go through life comparing apples to pears I guess you will always appear bumptious.

To get from the point we were at on cut off day to 200 lots within a fortnight is nothing short of a miracle and to do it year after year quite frankly is a pain.

They say the best things The British do are queuing and whingeing. Well you're all doing the first very well, only just over an hour this year, and very few of you are also doing the other, why? ... beats me, apart from the fact you're British I guess.

I stand by my promise.

[aristomatic]

Sounds like a lot of events........ chasing chasing...only just achieving... and for not a huge return..... If you were doing this for some charitable cause and the charities benefit because of all the chasing/only just achieving.. then even that's not ideal as only a few doing all the chasing/only just achieving/pressure etc......... I am not the organiser(s) so it's down to them to figure out what they want to do. Keep the format generally as it is and try to fine tune/small tweaks/maybe accept some help. Or change it significantly. Or walk away from it..... I would hope that they continue.

GP

[badpenny]

...... and on that note I am locking this topic. I feel all sides have made their points and further dissection will only serve point scoring.

BP