Canterbury Auction Galleries sale 5-6 Feb

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Re: Canterbury Auction Galleries sale 5-6 Feb

Post by pennymachines »

The "1940s" Payramid, as JC pointed out is the '60s version of the game, but in fact this one would have been made in the late '80s or '90s by Jim Bryan, who substituted orange leatherette at that time for the traditional green.


716.jpg

Roger Gillman's fantasy love test did well at £680.
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Re: Canterbury Auction Galleries sale 5-6 Feb

Post by frayle »

If the Payramid was made as recently as the 1980s/'90s then presumably it would have been produced in order to sell directly to a collector, as opposed to a showman, who clearly would have had no interest in it, particularly as it operates using the traditional old penny?
Perhaps this explains the marvellous condition of these machines - the fact that they were made long after their intended 'time', and were bought for nostalgic reasons, and not for use by the masses in a commercial capacity?
Otherwise why make machines designed to use the old penny in the '90s? OR, are they in fact that recent....?
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Re: Canterbury Auction Galleries sale 5-6 Feb

Post by pennymachines »

frayle wrote: Wed Feb 06, 2019 8:50 pm If the Payramid was made as recently as the 1980s/'90s then presumably it would have been produced in order to sell directly to a collector, as opposed to a showman, who clearly would have had no interest in it, particularly as it operates using the traditional old penny?
Yes, that was the market by this time. I bought an old penny Payramid and Three Ball game from Jim myself. Pricewise they were attractive, and in perfect condition of course, but rate of production was inevitably low, as Jim mostly worked single handed by this time. Presumably the game could be accurately dated by its serial number, if he was still applying them.
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Re: Canterbury Auction Galleries sale 5-6 Feb

Post by frayle »

Interesting. I wonder how many 'modern' machines of the various types Jim Bryan made in those later years?

How much did your Payramid cost back then if you don't mind telling? If you do no worries!

The Canterbury Payramid has a number of 998 - does that tell us anything about quantities made generally?

According to Braithwaite's book a total of 1003 Payramids were made, which seems to dovetail quite neatly with the apparent production date of No.998 - almost too neatly!?
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Re: Canterbury Auction Galleries sale 5-6 Feb

Post by pennymachines »

Off the top of my head, I'd say it was about £350 - don't know if I still have the receipt...

The precise '1003 Payramids' came from Mr Bryan's order book, recording when and where the machines were sold (a keen collector now has this useful document). Given its condition, it makes sense that only five more were made after this one.

Interesting to see that Roger was selling the Passion Tester for £625 in the '80s - not quite kept up with inflation: https://pennymachines.co.uk/arena/smn-22/
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Re: Canterbury Auction Galleries sale 5-6 Feb

Post by treefrog »

I always had assumed and believe read on the site before, Bryan’s numbers started at 101 for number 1 machine !PUZZLED!
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Re: Canterbury Auction Galleries sale 5-6 Feb

Post by JC »

The Canterbury Payramid has a number of 998 - does that tell us anything about quantities made generally?

According to Braithwaite's book a total of 1003 Payramids were made, which seems to dovetail quite neatly with the apparent production date of No.998 - almost too neatly!?
For those who are not aware, all of Bryans serial numbers started at 101, so in this instance, serial number 998 wasn't the fifth to last, there were another 105 after this machine.
As for:
(a keen collector now has this useful document).
It really is a pity that this 'keen' collector doesn't seem to be inclined to share this information :#:
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Re: Canterbury Auction Galleries sale 5-6 Feb

Post by JC »

Sorry froggie, you beat me to it......
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Re: Canterbury Auction Galleries sale 5-6 Feb

Post by JC »

Just looked at the prices in the Arena. Stupid money thrown at some of the machines, but a few sold for pretty fair money, taking commission into consideration. Can't believe the Bryans 3 Ball 9 Cup sold for the same money as that god-awful Parkers Carousel.
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Re: Canterbury Auction Galleries sale 5-6 Feb

Post by frayle »

JC wrote: Thu Feb 07, 2019 12:04 am
The Canterbury Payramid has a number of 998 - does that tell us anything about quantities made generally?

According to Braithwaite's book a total of 1003 Payramids were made, which seems to dovetail quite neatly with the apparent production date of No.998 - almost too neatly!?
For those who are not aware, all of Bryans serial numbers started at 101, so in this instance, serial number 998 wasn't the fifth to last, there were another 105 after this machine.
As for:
(a keen collector now has this useful document).
It really is a pity that this 'keen' collector doesn't seem to be inclined to share this information :#:

Is it really likely that a further 105 Payramids were made in the late 1980's and 90's - would there have been such a demand from 'collectors', many of whom apparently didn't even realise such machines could be bought at all at this time?

If there were such a number then surely thirty plus years on they would be popping up at auction on a very regular basis?

Can't really see it - until we find Payramids numbered well over the 1000 mark?

Anybody out there have No 1075 or even 1103 ?? Etc etc.
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Re: Canterbury Auction Galleries sale 5-6 Feb

Post by pennymachines »

JC wrote: Thu Feb 07, 2019 12:04 am It really is a pity that this 'keen' collector doesn't seem to be inclined to share this information :#:
I'm surprised you say that JC. Have you asked him? If you supply him with a serial number I believe he's quite happy to look it up and give you the details. He has for others, although I've never got around to requesting it on my machines. Unfortunately, although he's registered as a member of the site, I don't think he visits.

Although it's true the serial numbers started at 101, I can't believe there were another 105 Payramids made after this one because the rate of production was so low by this time. I guess the only way to find out is to ask our friend...
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Re: Canterbury Auction Galleries sale 5-6 Feb

Post by JC »

I'm surprised you say that JC.
OK, perhaps I could have worded that better. I too am aware of collectors to whom he has supplied information, and I have no reason to believe he sits on this unique resource for his own self-interest. However, although you and I know who he is, I suspect for vast majority of users of this site won't. Perhaps you could approach him and see if he'd be prepared to post it in resources?
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Re: Canterbury Auction Galleries sale 5-6 Feb

Post by pennymachines »

I'll run the idea past him next time we speak (which isn't often), but would understand if he didn't want to publish it. Besides, I assume it's quite a thick book with many pages?
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Re: Canterbury Auction Galleries sale 5-6 Feb

Post by treefrog »

pennymachines wrote: Thu Feb 07, 2019 1:50 pm I'll run the idea past him next time we speak (which isn't often), but would understand if he didn't want to publish it. Besides, I assume it's quite a thick book with many pages?
It’s certainly true, you need to be in the know ;-) I’m certainly not :#:

Interesting though, does this ledger cover all machines and back to the start of the company or is it limited. I could imagine this could be a valued service for people to attach history to their machine.... !!THUMBSX2!!
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Re: Canterbury Auction Galleries sale 5-6 Feb

Post by longbobongo »

I am in contact with the collector. However he did pay to obtain the ledgers so as for posting it for free.... you have to ask would you. He bought them in the '80s and they weren't cheap then. Maybe if we had a whip around or someone offered to buy them or a copy from him to cover the investment he would consider the idea.

He will or did provide the information on the serial numbers, however imagine how many requests he would receive now we have the power of the Internet. It would be non stop.

The ledger includes....
The serial number.
The coin
The manufacturer date
The company\purchaser
If it had been back for repair or decimalisation.

As far as I'm aware it covered almost all the machines. I'm pretty sure it didn't cover certain models.
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Re: Canterbury Auction Galleries sale 5-6 Feb

Post by treefrog »

I suppose what is the point in having this type of information if not for the benefit of the hobby, eg history and information. I guess we all put value to things as you say, especially given investment. I do think not all, but many, would love to know the history of their machine. If he is not willing to, perhaps he could pass on to someone who was willing to provide a service, say £4 per machine for their history and no fee if not registered and split the fee......or, as you say, take a fee for a copy of ledger to be posted on the site....

Any bumpers on there :cool:

We live in hope |/XX\|
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Re: Canterbury Auction Galleries sale 5-6 Feb

Post by longbobongo »

Sure for a small few it might be worth while. He's a great guy but when you have a lot of money tied in the bible of Bryans machines I personally would want to at least break even before listing the information. As once it is out there the price of the original would be wiped out. After all its only paper.

The reason the bible isn't complete was due to the fire at the Bryans factory. Some of it was destroyed but the vast majority of it remains.

As for the bumper..... that's a good genuine question !PUZZLED!
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Re: Canterbury Auction Galleries sale 5-6 Feb

Post by jimmycowman »

Any prices yet?
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Re: Canterbury Auction Galleries sale 5-6 Feb

Post by pennymachines »

Posted in the Arena on the day of the sale.
Also available on Canterbury Auctions' results page.
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Re: Canterbury Auction Galleries sale 5-6 Feb

Post by frayle »

This background information to any particular Bryan's machine I would find hugely interesting to have - to know the provenance of a machine would add much to its general value and desirability I think.
I would be happy to pay between £5 - £10 per machine for the relevant info, perhaps with a discount for several requests?
If the owner had the presence to obtain the 'bible' in the first place then he deserves a return of some sort.
In another collecting field a collector in a similar position used to charge a fee and give a proportion of it to his favourite charity. Seemed to work well.
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