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treefrog
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Jennings Witch and Black Cat

Postby treefrog » Thu Jul 09, 2020 3:10 pm

Was tempted to post about the below machine earlier to help unsuspecting buyers, but always difficult as people don’t like things published and of course owner may be on here.

Anyway at Beestons auctions in Norfolk a rare Jennings Witch and Black Cat sold today for £2500 plus £750 commission. First of the line of Jennings Victoria machines from about 1930. Supposedly only around 10 known to exist and only 500 made. Problem is, there are 100 time’s more repro versions than real ones, as all is needed is to change the lower casting of a Victoria B to a Witch version recently minted and suddenly you have a machine being worth lots instead of £600. The real versions serial numbers are all between 100001 and 100500 and repros after this. This, like the majority of the machines that appear at auction, is a converted machine. Also it is a British version and they never bothered to print out a 6D award. I only hope the buyer did their research !PUZZLED!
BBBCB0FA-ADEA-47E7-BAAE-F5DFBDCB1854.jpeg
BB821FC2-BFED-4C1A-A350-7D60472A2531.jpeg
There is a great video explaining all below, which also talks about how one of the great inventions first appearing on this model was introduced to allow the jackpot wins to be of an exact amount of choice. So you could choose say 60 coins or 100 coins and that is what is would pay. Problem is it was over-complicated with the large gubbins like on Coppin's machine below and they dropped the idea for the simple random drop and fall.
3506E0BD-B9A7-42CF-91E4-E6DF5C75CD6A.jpeg

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brigham
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Re: Jennings Witch and Black Cat

Postby brigham » Thu Jul 09, 2020 4:25 pm

It's 5 cents carefully made into 6d. for the British market, probably by the Samson Novelty Co., if the 20-stop number reels are anything to go by.
I've yet to own a Victoria 'B'. Let's hope this fad doesn't drive them towards extinction, like Waltzers did with Speedway Arks and Autodromes.

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clubconsoles
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Re: Jennings Witch and Black Cat

Postby clubconsoles » Thu Jul 09, 2020 4:48 pm

Yes I spotted this and knew a fake straight away as serial 106271.
I was amazed it fetched that much. Hope the buyer was aware it was a Victoria B???

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treefrog
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Re: Jennings Witch and Black Cat

Postby treefrog » Thu Jul 09, 2020 6:25 pm

This was no accidental sale/mistake from a selling part as the auction house would have no idea of the value and the reserve was set at £2500 to £3000, almost certainly set buy the vendor and the description left intentionally vague... I would argue it is worth less than an original Victoria B as it has lost originality. It is one fake that is subtle as most repros are more significant in the change, like War Eagles that have new cabinets. Anyone willing to spend £3250 must have known if original is probably worth a minimum of £10k surely would have done their homework :o

I remember another came up for sale on the Penny Arcade sales section (Coppin and BP site) from a seller in Germany. Picture was less clear, but I think that also had a serial number above the correct level and they were asking £2200 for it.

Anyway, this scam is widely published, especially on the US coinop forum. Maybe the buyer didn’t care and just wanted one. |/XX\|

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badpenny
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Re: Jennings Witch and Black Cat

Postby badpenny » Thu Jul 09, 2020 7:24 pm

Even if we ignore serial numbers etc I find 6d play suspiciously high.
For a machine to be operating on 6d in say 1930 the punter would be chucking today's equivalent of £1.20 (£1-8/-0d) into every pull, and this was the era of the great depression.
Even allowing for a varied history involving a conversion of coin to 6d in say 1950 that equates to £1 a pull. In the '60s when I started to wobble off the tracks I only remember 3d play on a Governor in the mid '60s and it was a rare occasion.

BP
ps~ Merely for the sake of accuracy The Penny Arcade website (https://www.penny-arcade.info) is 100% Paul Coppin's. My involvement involved support and writing copy during the first year and a bit. Once Paul was up and running I withdrew. I still visit the site and wish him well with his enterprise.

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treefrog
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Re: Jennings Witch and Black Cat

Postby treefrog » Thu Jul 09, 2020 8:32 pm

I have always been fascinated on what the laws were around gaming before the war as I can only assume the machines people like Samson were importing were for an illegal trade as the clarity around club, casinos and other establishments did not come until 1961, when you saw all the limited 12 coin payout except for licensed establishments.

In my short time of collecting, a lot of the 1930s British gaming machines had full payouts unless modified later on to the 12 coin payout, so 20 coin payout with jackpots and on penny, 3D and sixpence. I have a very original early War Eagle, probably a Samson machine on 6D and full payouts.......these must have been used in unregulated premises I assume. I had an Extraordinary with full payouts on 3D and a few Jennings Victorias... Not seen above 6D though until sixties came....

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pennymachines
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Re: Jennings Witch and Black Cat

Postby pennymachines » Sat Jul 11, 2020 1:36 pm

Beeston's say it sold for £2,500, but the-saleroom says it was passed. >!!???!!<

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daveslot
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Re: Jennings Witch and Black Cat

Postby daveslot » Fri Aug 07, 2020 10:54 am

It's back in auction!

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treefrog
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Re: Jennings Witch and Black Cat

Postby treefrog » Fri Aug 07, 2020 11:18 am

daveslot wrote:
Fri Aug 07, 2020 10:54 am
It's back in auction!
:HaHa:

Yes indeed, well I thought it had sold as I listened to the original auction live, which had active bids between at least two parties and reserve must have been met as they got to the starting estimate of £2500, as I believe they are not allowed to set reserves above estimate. So either some dodgy bidding going or maybe potential buyer chose not to go ahead.

The description has now changed to point out changed panel, but estimate still the same.

cjfenney
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Re: Jennings Witch and Black Cat

Postby cjfenney » Sat Aug 08, 2020 5:00 pm

brigham wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 4:25 pm
It's 5 cents carefully made into 6d. for the British market, probably by the Samson Novelty Co., if the 20-stop number reels are anything to go by.
I've yet to own a Victoria 'B'. Let's hope this fad doesn't drive them towards extinction, like Waltzers did with Speedway Arks and Autodromes.
Couldn't agree with you more about the Waltzers from Speedway Arks, I always loved riding those.


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